Kevin_Matlock

what he said! the only people who have really climbed hood started at pdx.

This was sort of my prospective of why I asked this in the first place. I mean, what does it matter if the bolting party was the first ascent or not? They still have permanently altered the rock. Why do they get a free pass? I understand that there is the unwritten rule of "leave it as the FA was done", but what happens if the first team up a route bolted it "poorly" (definition purposely ambiguous)? Surely nobody is going to give you shit if you swap out some awkward anchor made from a single crustly 1/4" bolt with a pair of nice stainless jobs, located in a much better location, right? How about if somebody sticks the bolts in a location that is way the hell out of reach for 90% of the climbers... would it be ok to move the bolts closer to the typically climbed line? This is why I was offered the answer of "yes, add them since it will enhance the protection of the climb". I wonder if climbing were almost exclusively a solo activitiy... would if just be expected to have two bolts set at the start? I saw another recent thread here where Kevbone you say "fuck it, it's smith, bolt away". I can't say I know Smith very well, but are you suggesting that it's full-on wild, wild west and nobody there follows the typically accepted rules? Wonder if a person were to just start slamming in a pair of bolts at the start of all climbs at Smith? I'm sure it wouldn't go unnoticed. Again, not sharpening my drill for anything, just asking pointed questions purposely looking to question what's typically viewed as "the norm".

kev, not any one place in particular. The thing that comes to mind is at broughton there have been times when I wanted to aid up but couldn't find any "ground level" anchors worth a shit. I wasn't just going to presume to start bashing in bolts (anywhere) until I had a better understanding of what the "rules" are. I might just keep the idea of "placing them in a hidden, recessed spot, a couple inches off the ground" up my sleeve (as mentioned above), but until I have a little practice time spent bolting, I sure aint gonna risk anyone's life to it. Earlier today was at the the Lake O wall and did the little trick of just rigging the first few bolts for upward pull. Pretty sweet; thanks for those thinking beyond where my pea brain went.

They were climbed already Kevin. Have they now! Ok, let's just think that.....

Ok, understood on the being creative part.... thanks for the example. No worries and peace. Thanks.

kevbone, ok, I'll mark you down in the no-bolts column. But... troll??? Are you paranoid, a skeptic, or disbelief of anyone's credibility here on CC.com? No trolls here man, just a question. I've never placed, nor do I know how to place a bolt. And what Bill said, I don't plan on doing Namesless anytime soon, only local routes that may or may not have been climbed before.

None in particular, just lines that I've been bummed that I couldn't rig a decent anchor. And I've set my anchor as you say at the first bolt, but it goes against my rule of having that single anchor point. I think Matt's point about rigging the first 3 is interesting (if not potentially a bit hard to rig).

Actually for both occasions. Not sure how that matters though... how do you view the difference? Good input so far and sounds like a couple of differing opinions. Keep it coming....

I'm pondering a scenario: You are going to start off on a solo climb up an already bolted route. At the base, there are NO good features or objects to use as an anchor for upward pull (it can be assumed that previous climbers had a belayer). Question - is it acceptable to place a couple of bolts with hangers at the base of the climb a couple of feet off the ground which would end up being used EXCLUSIVELY for an upward pull? "Hell no! Why are you drilling on an already established climb? If you can't make it work, then you shouldn't be soloing there" ...OR.... "Sure! After all, it's just completing the necessary protection for all climbers (both teams AND soloists) to climb" Instead of installing bolts with hangers, what about limiting it to a couple of rivets that are painted to blend in... does this even effect the answer? Haven't seen this done, nor have I done it. Just wondering.

Skis.... well, sometimes not. Most of the time, "hell ya", but if the conditions are really firm then you can expect full on ice up high and you'll just end up having to carry them down anyway. I'm only saying this because I've already done this once this year!!!

What are you after... easy or hard, free/trad/aid?

BillCOE, sorry, guess I should have indicated billBOB. Climbed with him before so I was just reconnecting with him. Yeah, I'm in Gents classes... I'll tell him 'hi'. RE: rocky, yeah I've been heavily considering getting back out there but am a little paranoid of getting my van busted into by the tweakers. I might invite myself if I can convince my flabby slacker ass that I can keep up with the rest of you (or just show up to belay).

I noticed that ACR had this new unit, too. Makes a person wonder if you are going to start seeing the previous model (a little larger/heavier) for something under $TotallyOverpriced and GiveMeABreak cents. Older or newer unit looks roughly the same size and weight though; still "about a pound".

Yep, sometimes you gotta take them off to be sure. But given the question of "should I lug crampons up", I'd always say yes.

Bill, when do you and son go? I'll be there this Wed for a class.... you guys interested in climbing before hand? (5 or 6 would be perfect) Just such a rarity that I'm there so figured I'd ask.

Don't know how long it will take, but for what it's worth, try to find some info on "the dark divide". This is Indian Heaven forest land, but the dark divide was an obscure name that apparently was the trail between these peaks. South on Adams can be done with crampons; no need for rope.

Personally, I'd never go up without pons; ever.

Yeah, I know.... just being cheap! Why the HELL to they cost so stinking much!??!??!! No, don't answer that since I already know. Just wish they weren't so much $$$$. Thanks for the input on the brands and what not, Bill. And yes, my balls will likely thank me. Oddly enough I've grown quite attached to them. Probably best to try on different ones and hang the shit out of 'em before purchasing anyway. Some classic shit right there! Can I get the "Todd Skinner belay loop" autographed with a sharpie or fingernail polish? Feel free to clean it with a little coleman white gas to make it really shine.

I posted this on another, more relevant wall site, but figured I'd try here too: I’d like to pick up a big wall harness but don’t want to spend over $100 on a new one. (Typically a well cared-for harness is one of the strongest pieces of gear so I think it's a good bet that buying used is fairly safe) Looking for someone’s hand-me downs, but NOT looking for someone’s junk though. Cosmetic condition is unimportant and I have access to an industrial sewing machine so a couple of minor repairs are ok. But the thing has to be safe. Anybody have a second harness they don’t plan on using, planning to upgrade yourself, or are they getting out of aid/walls? Let me know what you got, condition, and your price. Thanks! (edit- sorry, should have mentioned looking for a large size)

Never been before, but I'm sure someone will tell you the pioneer route on monkey face (smith). Pretty much all other crags are fair game provided that you are climbing clean. I've climbed clean aid on sport climbs on almost all the local portland crags; it's out there, just gotta go do it. Where are you located? You had a certain part of OR in mind?

Cluck, nice photo essay for the masses! A picture is worth a thousand sprays.... good job and thanks for putting forth the effort.

this would make a cool desktop image. the hiking looks fun, if not a bit sloggish.

ivan, you'd do luethold, cooper, THEN sunshine???? never been on sunshine, but JT in Ore High makes it sounds like a relative cake walk.... almost hogs back in nature.

They've never been ok, IMHO. Not meaning to turn this into yet another "dog vs. no-dog" thread, but why would you drag your mut up there unless you plan on (a) keeping him on a leash AT ALL TIMES, (b) blue bag his crap, and © keep him from barking at all wild animals or other people up there. Seems few ppl w/dogs are considerate of others when I've seen them on the trails.

How about that rubberized paint crap that you can dip tool handles into? Not ice tools, but pliers, screw drivers, etc. I know nothing about this stuff, but it's suppose to remain pliable and I'm wondering if you coated it with a thin coat......????