johndavidjr

I understand you say it was trashed but it possible to guess about the number of names that had been in Walkinshaw register since whenever (1975?).

I did it in mid-aug. 2001 & obviously have no info or knowledge relevant to current snow conditions. But I think it really rates highly among the dozen+ climbs I've done in N. Cascades.

A rather obvious source, for those actually interested, is "DOSEWALLIPS WASHOUT ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT." It refers to the private acreage in the section titled "access" but provides no further info on subject. See http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/olympic/projects/washout/DoseWashout_EA.htm#3 P.S. Queets question remains unclear but I STILL think there was probably a bridge there & remain interested in learning more Queets Valley history. In any case, prior to FDR aquiring Queets Valleyfor NPS, there was private land & homesteading on Queets trail above current trailhed, bridge or not. The place is now regarded by many people as remote wilderness, & access isn't an issue.

Post by Gapertimmy is right. My post is a bit trollish & I shall limit future postings to those with direct climbing relevance. Am still interested in question, but will attempt to answer through more sensible means.

I'm uncertain. I have self doubt. I am able to modify my understanding of history by inquiry and by seeking the assitance of others who may be better informed. Queets may have been a sore point among NW republicans (the few) of 60 years ago, when FDR took the place over-- of this much I am fairly certain...... but I wasn't there at the time, & you can't trust the media--- blabla..but I do think QUeets is a fascinating place.

Was there ever a bridge at what is now Queets Trailhed? sorry if this is too off-topic, but have been curious about this as my girlfriend burned my copy of R. Woods some years ago. There are a couple of former homesteads beyond the trailhed & a Web site on Queets River History says the road up the valley was built in 1920s. No bridge mentioned. It did mention a primative cable car crossing at Smiths site.

Those sound like some incredible trips & you must identify strongly with the place. I've never even been beyond old dose trailhead, though hiked in uppaDuckabush 4-5 times & did get to Anderson Pass from Quinault once. I gather the East Side is short on access, but not as "bad" as the west & SW portions. My fav is probably Queets trails -- & as I say, from Dose advocates view, why not replace bridge at Queets trailhed? (Was there in fact ever a bridge there? It seems almost certain. Also, history buffs, what is world altitude record for truck-travel on Mt. Olympus-- and when was this record set?

Yet most people here seem fairly well-informed on current affairs-- despite failings of stupid TV radio & press.

Dear Sailboy: Share with Your Mother (for the moment, we don't have to). Also your comment re. Justice Dept, now run by Mr. Ashcroft, is an unclear point in light of Dubyah telling Justice Department not to defend roadless area roadbulding rules in court. Could you be more specific about President Clinton's failings on matters pertaining to wilderness mountaineering maintenance and access issues? __________________ _______________ ----

I'm a financial reporter, a pretty narrow field, but once in a while my stuff gets shoved in newspapers. Point made above, re. sourcing Noam Chomsky for GE earnings, is quite right. He wouldn't take my call, and if he did, he would have nothing of immediate relevance to say. Of course given all the $$$ in the financial industry, the copy editing desk is trained to be highly "conservative" in hewing to straight & narrow with the stuff they get. Maybe is a bit like what I've said elsewhere about Right-Wingers having talked themselves out of a place in discussions of wilderness values. But in my view, Chomsky sounds nearly irrational about politics, & I gather his linguistic ideas of 40 years ago, while perhaps still of interest, have fallen out of favor as well. Once in a while analysts (typical sources) have moral impulses, but for the most part its just a great big machine that you glom on to & it pays your rent (barely)....and nobody really gets blamed because half the time you just say "the company said"

Yeah, liberalism is the status quo, because it will always be expedient (look at Dubbya's drug bill & Rush getting backed by the ACLU). I'm always in favor of muddling through.

Why not rebuild the bridge that once crossed Queets river at trailhead? It is so far to drive, the least the feds could do after taxing your gas, would be to let you cross the river without drowning. ...??? am joking to make a point. Historical precedent holds a lot of sway, but many wouldn't quibble with policy on Queets Valley. BTW I've been to Dose trailhead-- in 1977 & in 2000 went elsewhere(by a series of super-cheap county bus rides) when I learned it was shut. Even if you agree philosophically, with Ira Spring (shelton native who supported rebuild) you can't discount Harvey Manning, who I assume would be opposed & who disagreed bitterly with Spring. But first there's "brinnonprosperity.org" which has been called into play, and is at best distasteful because of its multiple links to "james watt" type organizations of the hard right. Such groups are unable to participate in discussion of wilderness, other than in purely negative role, because they apparently lack the necessary terms & concepts. Then there's minor point about the 80 acres that are privately owned beyond the Dose washout. I assume development of wildest dreams of "brinnonprosperity.org" is properly restricted, but these acres may be relevant. What are development plans & where are these acres exactly? I guess the legend is well-known of an early ONP proposal to build cable car system through ONP --to provide access while preserving wilderness. Brilliant, because, to apply brinnonprosperity.org's reasoning on road impact, the cable would only be a few inches wide, and at 100 miles long, would take up far less than an acre of the park. (Vs 4.5 for Dose rd.) ----------------------------------------- -----

I haven't been clear in my comments on Dosewallips road repair, partly because the issue has several aspects that are nearly unrelated. But I think the Manning/Spring dispute, as stupid and bitter as it was, is highly relevant. First there's "brinnonprosperity.org" which really is driven by real estate interests and is at best distasteful, especially because of their multiple links to "james watt" type organizations of the hard right. Then there's minor point about the 80 acres that are privately owned beyond the Dose washout. I assume you can't build a casino, or whatever the wildest dreams of "brinnonprosperity.org" might be for those acres. But it seems quite likely that the value of this land would be greatly enhanced if you could at least drive a nice motor home (or two) there. As for precedents, well, it it goes without saying that climbers & hikers favor this road repair, then the line gets drawn on preservation further back up the hill. (See Havey Mann's general views.) -----

For the record, there are 80 private acres on road beyond wash-out. I'm thinking of putting in a real low-ball bid. Whaddya think?----

I'd be interested in a brief summary, Dr. Fairweather, of the latter chapters of Beckey's most recent work. The chapters concerning post WWII history of NCascades. That looked like the best part, but unfortunately I lost my copy while making connection at O'Hare.

So true. I can't even remember the correct names as I sit here, but it's a pretty well-known minor route that goes by LLs. I got to the basins below LA last summer on the trail, but a bear hunter's rifle shots scared my girlfriend, so we turned around. Stunning moonlite views of Pershing though.

Nice photos--- really nice tr--- interesting.

(edited for my stupid confusion re. dis guy's name) Was re-reading about falling-out of 40-year friendship of these two Great NW Fossils in 2002, the year before Spring died. I think he was born in 1918...Manning felt that Spring was too open to compromise in conservation efforts. One notes Spring's support for Dosewallops road reconstruction. His general view of trails & access was reportedly that crowds of hikers create a constituencey for wilderness preservation. Manning agreed obviously but at least claims to have greater concern with the latter. I grew up with Manning's "Freedom" and can highly recommend his memoir of both childhood & hiking as middle-aged person, "Walking The Beach To Bellingham." From middle 1980s perspective, the book is obsessed with how things had changed around the Sound in a decade. I wonder if Spring's endorsement of Dosewallops was a specific factor in their disagreement. (I'm sure Spring would be disturbed to note the links on "brinnonprosperity.org" mentioned elsewhere on this board. THey include several think-tanks & legal action groups of the right wing, (Not James Watt/Gail Norton?) There is also the site of a well-known timber industry spokesman, & looks like even a few lunatics with atmospheric science opinions & air of general hostility. These people are helping???

My response would veer still further afield from ACCESS subject matter, & so I'll henceforth confine self to SPRAY on this. -----------------------------------------

Am considering the hike from lake of angels to lena lakes in SW Olympics. Am on East Coast & trying to predict snow conditions around July 4. Can anybody venture a guess?

Must mention how real estate developers virtually hypnotized and called forth two threads elsewhere on this board. I am quite removed from NW politics and sensiblities as I live here in Jersey City NJ at present. I know Olympic residents have expressed lots of anger over the years. But I thought that climbers continued to understand wilderness values as traditionally espoused by many NW climbers. Some years ago I inspected historical files on creation of North Cascades National Park in the basement of a small university library. Opposition in Washington, I gathered, was nearly unanimous. Everyone thought they understood the issue perfectly. Purely based on local recreation opportunity the road should certainly be restored. But its repair will help set precedents or reinforce them & in general may have more negatives--

Sheeesh !! Just what "wilderness values" IF ANY, might contributors to this thread actually support? I was delighted when the east side wilderness areas were established in the latter 1970s---I find this thread gravely disheartening. Morality compells me to suggest that "brinnonprosperity.org" so helpful & concerned about the mountaineering constituency, is a shill for local real estate interests and their lackeys. In a word to the wise, all rather tough on the landscape. ------------------------------------------------ ___________________________________________________

I climbed peak in September '95 & saw severe rockfall in left gully. We entered right gully near its top & crossed small patch of odd rock that was a bit like clay. Above this, one could pick a 4th class route.

I Do hope they build the road again---Gawd I hate hiking- Also, the unemployment rate in Brinnon is, well, there just ain't no opportunities & it's really a terrible problem for the nation 'less you're in real estate.

I climbed it twice in 1978 with Evergreen State College students; once in February via Dogs Head & once in July via Shoestring Glacier. Rockfall on Shoestring very nearly killed six of us. It was an extremely harrowing and drawn-out experience. I would like to hear from anyone who was along on that trip if they happen on this post.