minx

you never said thanks for bringing the kindling. what a jerk

at least they're trying to address their problems. not sure this mentor thing is the way to go about it but at least it's something. i do want to be clear. i know some pretty cool folks that are/have been mounties. the organization as a whole bothers me but most of the people i've known/met were good folks. some of i've really enjoyed doing things with. others are one time and out. octavius seems to be a good example of getting what he needs from the mounties and still continuing to evaluate and think.

How many times have I heard people piss and whine and tell me I'm going to die because I am downclimbing the same route in tennie shoes that they are taped up with a double set of cams about to lead? And then I get the the 3rd degree at the base for only having a first aid kit and water with me. that number is directly proportional to the number of neutrinos a person has left on girth pillar divided by the number of windshirts they own multiplied by the number of posts in spray. Gary will do the calculation for you if you need him to.

CBS-yeah, i'm annoyed. i don't appreciate the allegation that my opinion is based from the spray on this site. i'd like to think that mostly, i'm a pretty mellow partner but i know for a fact that i'm not a mellow person. KK-frankly, i don't really want to be behind anyone. that said it probably depends on how fast the party is moving and how they're set up to climb. 2 parties of 2 have deterred me. other times a group of 4 seemed reasonable. organization is probably the biggest factor.

You saw people who got in your way. Since they were in your way, you call them Mounties. I'm going to do the same the next time I have to wait for you. CBS--please know what you're talking about before you type. i know they were mounties b/c i talked to them. i don't rashly attribute the behaviour b/c the group was slow. i'm perfectly happy to sit behind a slow party. yes, i certainly have been the slow party before. i get annoyed when i get stuck behind a slow group of 8. sorry, just can't help myself. i mentioned multiple items in my list not just one being stuck behind some slow people situation. get over it. you're just pissed b/c you tried to sling an unwarranted insult at me and you got rebuked. go back to the lab and stfu mmkay? i'm annoyed enough with you for today. i'm going to go on with the rest of my life so i can get home early and train hard for my next assault on a good moderate 5.5 multi-pitch.

quit complaining e-rock. i think harry just offered to get on his knees for you.

yes CBS--full on gaper right here. i've readily proclaimed myself queen of the moderates today. what's the matter CBS? is hard to argue with actual examples? don't like being contradicted or reality for that matter? sure we're all approaching this with different temperaments. mine happens to be more fiery than matt's or chuck's. gaper...whatever...go gape yourself. i just didn't like the little shot you took at me and it got my ire up. fuckin wank

damn gary, you're right. i'm going to go grab some lunch now. and this notebook just isn't going to update itsself. when i get back this afternoon, i expect to find you and rumr in the right forum. sheesh...bunch sensitive guys.

gary and rumr are about to hug. anybody want to join in?

i'm afraid the vitrole on this thread does not meet the minimum standards for spray. pick it up gentlemen or i'm going to have move this fucking thread to the cafe!

trust me rumr, you well never find me "pounding on" CBS or KK.

hee! you just like it when i get my hackles up b/c CBS is an idiot

Ummm, you did get the memo on filling out the requisite forms in triplicate didn't you? The CLIMBING COMMITTEE is not here to fill out your paperwork for you, Minx. If you don't shape up and fly right from now on, the CLIMBING COMMITTEE will be forced to revoke your license, and there where will you be, MINX. And I haven't seen you at lecture recently. There was an utterly fascinating discussion on the history of the Munter hitch the other day. Your loss. i'm sorry i missed lecture again. i'm sure that your talk on the pros and cons of carrying a 3rd spare belay device was fascinating. i was told that if i filled out the paperwork in quadruple and had it in by 4:48:30pm GMT with 14 signatures my climb would be approved by THE COMMITTEE. i assume i can count you to sign the forms so that THE COMMITTEE will approve my climb? i know that you of all people are looking for a nice moderate outing.

chuck i agree w/you about pointing out when someone is about to kill themselves. i'd like to think that i do it tactful in person. one of the incidents i'm refering to involved me running on a snow covered trail. i was out for a short run. not an overnighter. the woman scolded me for not carrying the proper equipment. apparently i needed extra clothes, my beacon, shovel, probe, a weeks worth of food, a tent, a compass and lord knows what else all to get out for a run. there is telling someone that they're about to rap off the end of the rope and die and then there's a brief classroom review of safety practices.

me

KK- you're right GDIs fuck up all the time. Myself included. The difference is that the GDIs aren't out there trying to be a "climbing organization" and selling their way as the best, safest way.

Gary, you're right...most folks in the mounties are probably perfectly nice and pleasant. They're probably even considerate about letting people pass but sometimes it's hard to pass 8 people. sure it's the climb leaders that are getting hurt. that's the point....who does the club choose as leaders??? i know they post their climbs on-line. the recent example for me is one my DH did recently and they got stuck behind 2 separate groups of mounties. very frustrating sure maybe we should all be climbing harder than the basic class mounties. but hell, i'll admit it... i love moderate alpine climbs. i'm no badass hard chick. i am queen of the moderates so get the fuck out of my way before i get all 5.7 on your ass.

shit harry, you're right! What was I thinking. I'll make sure to stay off of every moderate route in WA until I check with the committee! I'll go jump on something that i'm not physically ready to do since i didn't register my climb with the committee. folks, if the committee approves my weekend plans, i'll need at least 8 more for a full gaggle. Please send me a PM with the date and time you completed the 4th climb of your basic course for consideration.

CBS- don't make me humiliate you in public. 1) my weekend plans are changed b/c a group of 10 mounties has planned to do the hike/climb i had in mind. 2) i personally have witnessed more than one mountie in trouble and helped 3) i've been stuck behind a whole slew of them (8+) on a popular local climb while it took an hour or more for a single pitch to be climbed. Followed by me saying "you know you can't get down from there on a 60 meter rope right?" response being "umm...no" 4) DH recently got stuck behind a whole shmeer of them on another local climb. again, huge unnnecessary delays causing him to be late and me to worry. 5) See #4 for an incident when said mounties left a member of their party w/o a rope to rap down on...duh! 6) witnessed them snow camping in an avvy shute. 7) been chastized on more than one occasion for travelling w/o the enough/appropriate gear. I was out for a trail/snow run...not a major expedition. 8) regularly partnered with one that can't make a decision to save their life....literally. So CBS...STFU. My climbing experience is not limited to nor even much guided by what is said on this board.

Gary, for a lot of us it doesn't matter what's going on inside the organization. It's the end result that counts. They can be bickering, restructuring, striving for improvement, rethinking, reevaluating til the cows come home and it makes not one lick of difference to me. What does make a difference is: 1) not hearing stories about their members getting hurt 2) not having to plan my weekend around where a herd/flock/gaggle/pod of mounties is planning to climb 3) not spending inordinate amounts of time on a route if i happen to get stuck by them 4) not being chastized by them for doing things differently and thus "unsafely" 5) not having to feel awkward b/c someone says "i finished the basic course" and then having to explain that I need to know more b/c that doesn't make me feel confident in you as a partner. 6)turning out competent, knowlegabe, self-reliant climbers. i am not inherently opposed to "club climbing and learning". i'm not even sure that on a per climb ratio or per climber ratio that they have more accidents. what i am sure of is that clussterfucks seem to follow them and that the completion of the basic course gives the participant a false sense of their ability. so many of them learn so little in that course. what they do learn is to be paralyzed by over cautiousness.

The last time I did that climb the most psychologically intimidating part of that pitch for me was the bat nesting under the roof. no kidding!! i couldn't figure out what you were doing up there. i moved pretty damn fast when i got there! thanks for not warning me

dead is dead. don't be a jerk about it.

just enough, but be sure not to bring too many or you'll be wrong

i'm pretty sure that there are lots of people out there leading that are in total violation of korup's guidelines.

damn i'm exhausted from all that BS. 1) octavius, climb the damn climb and evaluate the protection when you get there. 2) to all those whining about this thread being disrespectful to the fallen climber--it's not. no one is critiquing his personal decsions or actions. it was a natural starting point for yet another holyfuckingdogawful thread about the mountaineers. 3) i've seen enough of the mountaineers to be scared. healthy respect for climbing is one thing, quivering intimidation is dangerous. i don't care how much gear you haul up the climb, a lack of ability to think independently and make decisions is dangerous. 3b) just b/c you've got a big group, your gaiters, your seattle sombrero, the latte from the north bend starbucks where you met your group of 30 to carpool to the TH for the tooth doesn't mean you're safe (to paraphrase someone). 4) Mister E--this is the petty squabble forum 5) why is zippering up an easy pitch on ingalls dangerous? it's not. being billed as a mentor and not being confident enough to climb ingalls with a reasonable amount of gear is. a newbie shouldn't be viewing this type of climber as mentor. this climber still needs a mentor and is still in the newbie phase him or herself. that's why it's dangerous. someone is relying too much on a rookie's judgements 6) i will never climb YJT just b/c it will remind me of this thread. continue on-