billcoe
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Posts posted by billcoe
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"if Bill is crazy enough to get in the middle of
it all then I'd suggest backing and trusting him."
Haha, lord I hope not, but thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to ya all. Spend a moment being thankful and hugging some loved ones. Before I go do that, here's what I know. I'm hearing from a lot of folks, and I incorporated the best thoughts that didn't have swear words into an email to the park folks. Heath has said he welcomes calls from anyone, and he'd even take them from his cell. SO, don't call me and expect me to call him with the details you want conveyed. Call him, not me. Randy and Heath evidently did get a lot of calls on this already.
It was a big blow out there, fortunately no one was injured and for the most part the structures were not damaged. It's a big responsibility on the park folks to hustle folks out of the campgrounds etc etc before they were killt (Ivan word there
and they should be damned proud of that cause it was a serious shit show that came down from the heavens. They are working like busy beavers and will be for some time, and could use our help. Save Dec 5th for a cleanup date, and it's park related, not climbing related as the climbers area is looking in much better shape than the park. The wind hit from the west, and the south side was somewhat sheltered from all appearances. As far as good news. I only have a bit. ...hang on someones waking up I'm gonna go give someone a hug and get some coffee...be right back.
OK, start from scratch. Parts of this I forwarded to the Parks folks. After the big storm I contacted Heath Yates, Beacons park manager, and I offered to help if he needed me. Adam had done the the same thing. Turned out, he did. Heath felt that the 2 big issues he had remaining as it related to climbers were safety related. I'm paraphrasing but the 1st was potential loose blocks or uprooted trees and any additional danger to climbers. He asked us to examine and report on that issue. Despite recent rains we were able to climb the s side to the Jills thrill anchors. It looks much better than either Adam or I thought based on the detritus on the ground. There was all kind of blowdown, tree branches and rocks littering the base of the south side. We tossed anything that looked like it needed it and we agreed that there are no lethal issues with the south side climbing area that we saw. So we're done with good news now.
The 2nd issue Heath had and where we are now was the reduced potential for a rescue should one be needed. (ie, Skamania Search And Rescue (SAR) not able to access the top to let a rope down). He has contacted them and is waiting for their reply. If they say, "we can climb up and effect a rescue in an emergency", I suspect that folks will be climbing shortly afterwards although I won't and can't speak for them. That is where it is right now.
Sending me an email every 5 min with the subject line "Is it open now" Is it open now" "how bout now?" won't do shit. It's in Skamania SARs inbox.
I've heard from many folks already just since yesterday and they all have the same question/statement which I forwarded to the Parks staff: "We've never had a climbing closure when the trail was closed, why now?"
It made me reflect to when I first climbed at Beacon. There were no cell phones and we never saw the ranger, regardless, he had his hands full with other things. There were no rescues, or ability for such. It was one of the things which made the climbing so good, because that's the way most other climbing areas in the backcountry still are. Anybody climbing in the North Cascades Park or the Wallows is much further from a rescue than at Beacon, and there is no cell coverage. As climbers it is what we expect. I'd suggested to the park folks that there may be 2 ways to keep the park open for climbers.
1st) Start a phone tree of climbers who live close, say North Bonneville or White salmon (Kenny and Dave come to mind). They could be called and be theoretically on the rock climbing with in a short time to bring food, water, headlamps etc to anyone in need. It was a recent incident of unprepared noobies that has this issue on the park people minds. Ask Kenny the details of that. They could also fix a rope from above for the Skamania SAR folks, climbing ropes is one of the skills that they have and practice even if they are not technical rock climbers.
This is what I pitched to the parks:
2nd) THE CRUX OF IT. If having the ability to effect a rescue is a total red line for you folks AND Skamania (SAR) can ONLY do top down AND there is absolutely no way to access to top (although it appears that one of the photos Randy sent along someone hiked up there to the height SAR would want to drop in at and took the picture, could not SAR, with ropes and gear to protect themselves also go there?), if it's necessary I'd suggest we contact Portland Mountain Rescue. They have many climbers as part of the group, practice technical rescues, and co-ordinate with the PJs (Pararescue Jumper) of the 304th rescue squadron. They love to practice such things and are usually present with at least 1 sometimes 2 Helicopters for Mt Hood rescues. One of my neighbors is a PJ officer, I could ask what the protocol is.
So, it's in SARS lap. If anyone knows any SAR members, now would be the time to call them. As far as that goes, we fix lines and leave them all winter at various places (Ivan has 4 out now that I'm aware of). Why not pre-fix a line out at Beacon if that would work for SAR?
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^^Me either.^^ We have nothing to Fear but Fear itself. Anyway, the subject at hand. As Ivan noted, there are some issues to get sorted out. Got an email from Randy Kline which he wanted distributed:
"As you may have heard, last week’s storm caused significant damage at the park and we are in the process of assessing this damage. The park is closed while this work occurs. From the climber perspective, both the climbers trail and Beacon Rock itself are closed to climbing for the immediate time being. Adam Baylor and Bill Coe are assisting us with our assessment as it relates to climbing.With good weather projected for this week we understand and are expecting some level of concern on the part of climbers. If you could please help us by getting the word out that we are working as quickly as we can to assess the damage and get the park open. The park has been receiving phone calls from climbers and we have become aware that some feel that this closure has been done purposefully to negatively impact climbing and the management plan update that is occurring. Obviously this is not the case. I’ve attached a few photos of the damage - please distribute as you see fit. Heath and other park staff are busy in the park so feel free to call me with any questions. ........
Best wishes, Randy"
As noted, Adam and I are meeting with the park folks tomorrow. I'll be checking in with an update for you all after making the loop tomorrow. (ie, loop = Beacon then Mt Hood Meadows to ski, then nap, then glass of wine, another nap, then post is the planned sequence currently) As long as I'm taking time off work I want to play for part of the day.
Here's some of the photos Randy forwarded.
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plus c'est la même from the practitioners of the religion of peace...
You are just an asshole, with ZERO respect for others.Is this a Polish hatred for Russian thing Bob? I mean, you 2 just go at it.
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Thanks for the invite but claustrophobia keeps me out of small tight caves like that. Looks like great fun though.
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Thanks JH, good point. I had reached out but haven't heard back with any specifics. Talked to Adam B. and he says he'll be out there soon to see what the reality is, he thought that a boulder had wiped out or hit the trail (again). A good project for climbers might be to clean off/prybar off the loose rock above the trail before they rebuild the thing again.
We'll see. Wonder if the windstorm caused this, seems like it was timed that way. If the decent trail is what the issue is, climbers can still climb and rap off.
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LOL, I guess that there is no need to look outside the window to see that it's raining again, just check the CC.com Beacon thread. More rain = more acrimony.
Steve, just a side note. The pre-opening cleanings that JH did an excellent job organizing were done exclusively to be timed so that climbers had less rock fall to be concerned with opening day. They have been very effective. We get a crapload of loose rock off climbing routes and other predetermined potential trouble spots where rock might land on climbers from above. Have had a great time doing it and I hope I keep getting invited to these kinds of parties. I enjoyed working with Joe. That the south side of Beacon is where us climbers go and thus tend to focus our efforts is coincidental to the RR running important and occasionally dangerous cargoes by right under us.
When that upper corner of the rock fell onto the base of Young Warriors it must have providence alone that occurred when the rock was closed and nobody was present. My speculation is that a massive and typical gorge windstorm blew that huge Doug Fir that was the end belay of Lost Warriors/SE Corner Lost Variation off and the roots took all the rocks with it. I happen to see the RR and the ecology of the whole region as an additional beneficiary to the climbers efforts.
BEFORE Loose rock picture (this doesn't accurately capture the amount of it, we took out some teetering massive blocks not pictured that would have easily taken a train out had it been timed bad. You can see one of them to JH's left that we moved along though, need to compare b4 and after shot) You can see Hanme in her lawn chair way below sitting off to the side of the tracks spotting the tracks to ensure no damage occurred to them. We were attempting to direct blocks away from the RR, and were successful in that effort. She only appears close, she was back quite a bit. You can see the green rope causing a mini dust storm/ rockfall as it touches rock below. Notice the hidden wisdom of this photo. ie, who went first. One of us is above looking down at this shitshow and the other is below looking up. above. LOL. "HEY JOE, YOU WORK THE BOTTOM AND I'LL WORK THE TOP". heh heh. (actually I'm kidding, he went down, tied the loose rope off around to the North out of the line of fire and then came back up and we worked side by side.)
Finished and heading out. And AFTER only one application of "Loose rock be gone" too. The area out of sight/not visible in the picture below and to the right as far as I could get the rope to go had extensive cleaning as well.
This was just the 2 of us. JH had layed out an effective overall south side strategy of teams in other locations where it was thought they were needed. People had paired up and worked other areas per a plan JH had worked out in advance, coordination between teams was critical as was coordination with the parks and the RR.
Of interest and surprisingly, I didn't see any scorpions this go round. Not sure if that was due to their dislike of newly configured habitat (too much dust?) or my poor eyesight as I age. I learned a long time ago not to move any rocks up there without gloves on. (OK, I got stung by Scorpions 3 times out there over the years before I finally figured that out). Was wearing gloves when I got the hit to the thigh that made hit #4. Grrr.
OK, there is a glimpse of sun outside right now for some strange reason, so I'm gonna go grab a slice of it. Take care all.
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Great find oly. I don't think the world sees guys like that but very rarely. Thanks for sharing it, good read.
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That things way to big to trundle. It could set off some ground fault and make California fall into the sea.
We've trundled bigger from higher - sick Bill on it, he'll jump up and down on it til it cuts and then surf it down to the tracks.
Damned straight. Good times JH.Something similar to this:
I appreciated that you got good co-ordination with the Railroad and the park to get those pre-openings happening. Climbers certainly benefited, but the RR is the big beneficiaries, maybe the whole region. Much more than climbers. If that damn thing cuts loose this winter or in the next few years like the last big chuck of rock only while a train is happening by it could be real ugly if they are carrying industrial chemicals downriver and the trail gets derailed, destroyed and plunges into the river.
Anyone remember this one? Minor (relatively) spill of herbicide that was frontpage for weeks. http://abc7news.com/archive/8126390/
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Way to get it banged out in marginal weather!!! I missed it. The consolation was it was low 70s in Red Rocks and we only got rained on one day. (turned into a waterfall on Johnny Vegas after driving straight out after landing and grabbing a rental car)
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maybe we should just use it's original injun name?
Indigenous peoples cliff or whatever "White mans Filthy Trashpit" translates too ("White ungwi- woyipa Trashpit?")? I'm sure they'll appreciate it:-) Maybe we need to retrain the cougars to eat latex gloves and blue tarps that the WDOT people toss off the hill with the animal remains? That overhang on top would be a perfect dry comfortable hunting spot if any Washingtonians are thinking of eating cougar this winter. I think all the tarps got picked up (last I saw but it's been a while since Beacon is open) but maybe they'll toss off a new one for you to use for your kill by the time you get out there.
I'll be climbing with Adam (and Ujahn and Amy) in Red Rocks next week for while (Good times ahead). So won't be arguing here once it gets wet outside like everyone starts doing every the winter. Someone needs to take my place and go help Ivan pull some fixed ropes off in the woods a tad and maybe put up a hundred feet of new route. Should be mostly free if it's not wet.
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And I definitely wouldn't have done YW the way it was put up either. Again, I find the rationales (and thread title) almost more troubling than the actual route and alpine settings are literally the last places on Earth that need 'routesetting' and sport climbs. Do love the code-wording involved with "modern classic", though.
I dislike the term "routesetting" as well. However, the fact remains that YW is a fun, challenging route that is rightly popular. Thus it stays {mostly} clean, and stays fun. Last time up it I was looking over at your Lost Warriors route it looked like an abandoned vacant lot and I was reflecting on the difference between the 2. Few go up there and do LW. In fact, I think if you ask yourself how often you have done Lost Warriors vs how many times you've done Young Warriors in the last 2 years, the tally might cause you to reflect enough to come to the same conclusion, and change your viewpoint. (assuming I understand your viewpoint)
How many times would that be for each? For myself, I think there is room for both ways in the world.
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Sounds like you did a good job and were thoughtful about those who follow. If you wound up with a great route after a bunch of work, my congrats to you! Over 40 years climbing here, I can't bitch about your skreed at all, but it's a "people who live in glass houses" thing for me. :-) One of the best multi-pitch routes in this area was "worked" top down for many of the pitches, is a mix of bolts, pins and pro. No one was "notified" or told about that style so as to avoid ignorant and pointless "bolting ethics police" type of criticisms. No one who has climbed it since has complained and the route is very popular and stays clean.
On certain cliffs, however, including the Mile High buttress, cracks are mainly found behind blocks in varying states of attachment to the wall. A lead fall on a cam places far more outward force on a block than one can generate with a hammer or short crowbar, so blocks that seem safe during route development could be levered off the wall and injure or kill the climber and/or belayer and/or cut the team’s rope if a cam is placed behind them. Experienced leaders may spot such hazards and avoid them, but not everyone is that savvy.Yup, each area is different, some have cracks that are just loose flakes on a massive scale and thus layed fallow and untouched forever till someone showed up with bolts....
some have no cracks or bolts won't hold:-)
(following Plaidmans on the Talon - Tomahawk photo below)
(Leading the FA of the Old Witch below)
That added, each area is different, and I think it's incumbent on us to respect the history, TRADition and ethics of each area. It's also nice to lay out your own vision for a brand new area so that it is inclusive and thoughtful for those who follow. Do you have a link to your route/description Rad? The name alone wants to make me climb it. Mmmmmmm "Mile High Club" and "Mile high buttress", I'm in love with those names.....wow. Pictures?
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For those suggesting that disarming the public is a good thing, google "Operation Northwoods" and see if you still only want the government to be armed. It only takes on sociopath to get elected and everyone will soon forget these kinds of things in the broader context of a gov't ordered mass murder. It's already come close to occuring, who can say how many times. The facts came out about Northwoods all but by accident.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/northwoods.html
If you choose to look it up in Wiki, remember that we pay well over 30,000 people through the US goverment, to edit and soften those kinds of files and stories so that the BS the government does doesn't look so bad.
"We have never been at war with Oceania". It's here.
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Don't give the media coverage your eyeball hours or clicks
Don't click on anything that gives extra attention to the shooter.
Don't fan the flames.
What a bullshit approach....
Calling bullshit on your bullshit. The data are VERY clear. People in the US have easy access to guns and they shoot people. You don't hear of mass stranglings or mass knifings. Control guns and the problem goes away. Any idiot can see that. Moreover, the media gives dead killers huge amounts of attention so future would-be gunmen see fame and glory through infamy as their end. And the media makes money, the gun companies make money. Yes, changing gun laws is the obvious solution. If you've figured out a way to do that I'd love to hear it.
One very simple way to act is to not let the media monetize these tragedies. Avert your electronic gaze. If killers get no attention the prospect of internet fame will be removed as a lure to would be killers.
Maybe you have better ideas.
No, that's a good thing. Japan uses that approach. They are horrified that when they see this occur in the US, what follows is a media frenzy to publish photos and stories of the perpetrator. In Japan, they do that for the victims, believing that it reduces the chance of people sympathizing and seeing themselves as the shooter. They empathize with the victims that way.
If you pitch this idea out there, everyone says" Oh you can't do that because it will violate the 1st amendment". Yet the news media already does exactly this for suicides on campus. The American Psychiatric assoc. asked them to stop publishing names, stories and photos of suicides as they found that doing so led to copycater after copycatter empathizing and doing the same. Not publishing the info is voluntary for the media, and has led to much a much less campus suicide rate. We need to do the same for shootings.
Don't fan the flames, good advice Rad except it should be 1st) studied and confirmed that this is a good thing, and 2nd, make it voluntary for the media to report it responsibly. If it would make even a dent in this BS, it would be worth pursuing.
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**sold pending funds**
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I have a brand new 5/16" x 300' New England lightduty Static Rope still on the spool in the box I bought at the 2013 REI sale I'd part with for $140 plus $20 shipping to the US (or Portland Or face to face). I'd bought 2, only needed one as it turned out and it's still looking good. Strength is 20 kilonewtons they say.
First to post "I'll take it" here or via email billcoe@gmail.com gets it.
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I fully support people with a demonstrated lack of compassion and analytical firepower not voting.
I'm more than happy to vote for them.
Thank you for not doing as much damage to the rest of us as you could!
They'll be coming for you next? Or are you talkin' that maybe it's gonna be Nixon for the 2016 Presidential win as these folks suggest? Or are you sure that's not just subtle racism? Let have a test before folks can vote?
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Might be the high point. We are over 600 feet up, but it appears to be less than half way.
Here's what looking down looked like Saturday when Bryan Schmidt was following me up the overhanging jug. Camera died (from fright? LOL) not long after. Ivan and time were both past and had moved on up already.
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That is a question for the Mazama Historian GZ. However, the age sequence (from memory so don't yell at me) went like this:
SMC - first hangers were plated steel. The rustyish one is such. The SMC logo is read normal when the hanger is installed.
They ditched the plated steel and went with thin Stainless. The SMC logo is still read normal when the hanger is installed.
Later, and I don't remember the dates but probably the 80s, they beefed the stainless thickness up and rotated the logo 90 degrees. As any "rebolter" will tell you, these thicker SS are the only version worth a crap to hold up well and have some longevity.
So, those SMC's in the photo appear to be both the earlier plated steel/and SS versions. Coupled with Michas info on age and overhangs, and that's probably the full meal deal explanation.
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Low T is all. Welcome to old age.
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I really appreciate that you left some select pieces of history for everyone. Any asswipe, like me, can easily bust off all the old shit and plug in new stuff with a power drill. The real mastery is upgrading what needs upgrading while leaving the feel and memory of the history behind for every other climber to discover or remember. It sounds like you used your brains to do exactly that,and although no one can ever please everyone, it's a mental game that needs to be played out and I'd bet no one will be unhappy with the results. Good on ya for doing it that way.
Thank you both, that's the way to roll.
ps, don't shirk the photos, they are most likely more important than all the words in the thread:-)
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George, right where he jumps is now a large (@ 3feet high) aluminum cross with a faded photo of some deceased jumper attached to it. Wonder if its the same guy in the vid.
I think the wood one is now gone, but memory's play tricks. Do you remember from our wet soggy death march in the rain to the top Ivan?
There are 2 Tower Rock campgrounds. For $2 more I like these guys best (plug in power if you want it is available). It just seems super secure if you want to leave a $300 sleeping bag and the rest of your costly gear behind for the day or so, they're @ 3/4 of a mile further down the road from the first Tower Rock campground (Forest Service) sign: http://towerrockrv.com/
Further, this campground would be a world class place to just haul the family and the little kids for a civilized camping trip. Rent a cabin even.
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Damn that looks good! Great TR, and nice work. It's got me itching to look a little closer. Can't do it this year, but next spring is a definite possibility.
Is the rock as solid as the pictures make it look? I'm real interested in attempting to bolt and free a line up the arete/face that is marked by the yellow line I drew in the pic Ivan posted. It looks pretty sweet from the few glimpses I can get through the posted pics!
Really? OK. Certainly worth the hike. BTW, hunting season is on, archery just started (still safe) modern rifle is soon, so wear some blaze orange - not joking about that. The other huge bit of good advice is this. Watch for loose rocks. Or blocks. Or whatever is bigger than a block.
The locals say that shit comes flinging off at all kinds of crazy times. Huge stuff, scary stuff, very loud stuff at random and odd times and all hours is what they say. Ivan and I hiked up one morn, and the 10-15 mph winds alone were knocking off softball to toaster sizes (from higher than Beacon Rock in some instances) regular like rain on a wet day. I'd never seen anything like it in my 43 years of climbing.
We thought we had solid rock, but it really wasn't. It comes out of everywhere. I just took a glancing blow from a baby rock Saturday right to the chest. Rare that I take a rock. Squirrel suitor 1200 feet up or so clearing the jump yelled rock, and then tossed several. A tiny one took a few bounces and smacked me hard. I think with some honest effort, the first 2 pitches we put in would be great free climbing. Touch base with Ivan and I and tag along next trip if you want. We'd love your company Michah. Great stone, great camping.
You can free the next 40' section of our route, figure out a new line for spring, and let an old guy off the hook. Cough**cough**.
oh, edit. As an aside. Proud route, yellow line. But I'm not sure that Chris Sharma rap bolting, would be able to free it if he worked on it till he was as old as me {old} even if he had Adam Ondra pushing on his ass from below.
Ponder this. The moss gets wet (and gets the freeze thaw action). Anything with no moss is so steep it almost or actually overhangs and stays dry. Its flaky basalt/andesite. So steeper than Beacon but less solid. No cracks of substance.
PM sent.
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Gearexpress.com has the Edelweiss Impulse 60m x 10mm Rope for $104.95
70m -s $127.97
http://www.gearexpress.com/edelweiss-curve-9-8mm-rope-1.html
Beacon
in Columbia River Gorge
Posted
Hi Ivan, I don't have the SAR info. However, this was the last email I received from Randy Klein yesterday.
Randy wanted the info to be released out there and Adam had an excellent response, snippet here "...I'm going to advocate for the climbers that we have access to the South Face. "One idea: Can we work out some sort of "sign-in" process? Something where climbers simply check-in with the Rangers. That way we can make sure that nobody is going out climbing without knowledge of how to safely rappel. I for one have never climbed at Beacon without knowing that I could get down safely if injured or if my partner is injured...."