PLC

From Seattle, the fastest approach to Trout Lake is to drive I-5 to I-84, take that to Hood River, then take WA state route 141 north. Even when FR-23 is clear of snow, it'll still be faster to drive around on the interstates.

Oh.... they were talking about high school. Yes, high school does suck. So boring, so very, very boring.

A few years ago I read two seperate reports published within days of each other. The first was a report by the Labor Department listing the best and worst jobs in America, based on objective measures like pay scale and injury rates. The second was a subjective survey of job satisfaction. The funny thing was that the lists were nearly perfectly inverted. It seems that what makes people really love a job is exactly NOT what the government thinks we want in a job. The jobs with the highest satisfaction were all low pay, high risk, high physical labor jobs - things like cowboy, fire fighter, lumberjack, etc. The high paying office jobs that we all go to college for are really just soul-robbing nightmares.

They were worried about you "soloing" McClellan Butte?!?!?!?!?

"a) work does not follow you home, ever." What the hell kind of job do you have? My work ALWAYS follows me home. And no staying up "till 4am"? I've put in two all nighters at work THIS WEEK, and thats just standard practice around here. School is easy, easy, easy, easy - when I was in school I went climbing 3 days a week, played basketball every day, had plenty of time for hanging out - I mean your in class for a couple hours a day, max, and the rest of the time is yours. Nothing, and I mean, nothing in this universe is worse than droning away your life in an office job. School is BLISS compared to work.

You don't need to worry about crevasses on Ruth. There are a few cracks, but nothing to worry about at this time of year and if you stay close to the ridge, you'll be fine. I took my dogs up there late last year and was comfortable enough with the few thin cracks that I let them run around unleashed.

The closest I ever came to a black bear was actually in Alabama. We were exploring the Little River Canyon, trying to find virgin rock and had gone about 4 miles up canyon and then a half mile or so up a side canyon when a cinammon colored bear stumbled out of the woods about 10 feet from me. We stared at each other for maybe 10 seconds before (I swear) he "shrugged", turned around, and ambled back into the woods. Up in Alaska, however, I was scrambling up some unnammed hills off the Denali Highway when I came over the ridge and came face to face with the butt of a brown bear digging up a ground squirrel. He was maybe 5 feet away. I immediately turned around and headed back downhill. I don't think the bear ever even knew I was there. A minute or two later after I calmed down, I realized that I had somehow pulled out my .357 without even thinking about it. Not that it would have done any good....

I go to the Olympics once or twice a year and I've never NOT seen a bear - usually I see two or three. I think it's a combination of enjoying the same types of topography as the bears (alpine meadows) and being more aware that the average tourist... Last year I took some folks from back East to Hurricane Hill and there was a big male bear about 100 yards away eating flowers and another bear about 1/2 mile away doing the same. Probably 200 tourists walked by with not one of them noticing the bears despite staring right at 'em...

faust said: "Interesting statement, can you site the source?" Here's the source - Alaska Science Forum July 27, 1995 Article #1245 "Pepper Spray Works, But Don't Bet Your Life On It" From the article it makes it sound like pepper spray works almost 100% of the time on browns, but is much less effective against blacks (maybe 50%). As far as I can tell, there have only been two known cases of pepper spray being used against polar bears, and it worked effectively each time.

Pepper spray doesn't work on black bears anyway: "Blasted black bears didn't seem as affected by the spray, especially those with a taste for garbage... Pepper spray also didn't send black bears running in the four cases where people sprayed them after aggressive sudden encounters... black bears seem to be more resistant to the physiological effects of pepper spray than brown bears."

8 to 10 years, if you want to maintain perfect vision....

Dave "Spike" Mahre is a relative of my wife, and when I first met him he told me the "old" vs. "bold" adage and implied that now that I was getting married, I'd better be prepared to give up the "bold" part. If you look at some of the stuff Dave put up around here, though, you'll see that people's definitions of "bold" can vary pretty widely.

My wife had Lasix 18 months ago for $1599 (both eyes) at Restore Vision Center. Supposedly its cheaper in Canada, but maybe not enough to make the drive and hotel room worthwhile. She said the surgery itself doesn't hurt, but it was pretty awful - you can smell your flesh burning, they use those "Clockwork Orange" things on your eyes, etc. Of course, she didn't take the valium they gave her so maybe it's not so bad for most people. Recovery time is about 24 hours. She went to work the next day. The only downside is your eyes will get dry pretty easy. Up on the glacier in Alaska last year she went through a full bottle of eye drops in a week. Some people claim that your vision gets screwy at altitude, but we haven't seen any of that - my uncle guides with RMI and he didn't have any problems on Denali last summer.

I can't guarantee that you'll be able to drive to Cold Springs by mid-May, but from my experience, the forest service web sites tend to be "conservative". A few years ago I read on their Adams page that the road was blocked by snow with five feet at Cold Springs, but I decided to go climb that weekend anyway and just hike the road. Turns out we were able to drive right to the trailhead, no problems.

Don't worry - they get plenty of my money...

ChucK, Fern, Dru, etc. - I'll conceed that my statement that the "whole" point of climbing is to maximize time spent outdoors was absolutist if you were to take it literally. Obviously, you could maximize your time outdoors by playing golf all day. I though that the enjoyment of climbing in-itself was implied by the fact that this statement was posted on a climbing message board, and could be assumed in my statement. I guess a more thoughtful statement might have been "for me, the primary attraction to climbing is the chance to spend time in beautiful alpine settings, doing something fun". So, once again, I'll admit that my previous statement was, taken literally, pretty stupid - the idea I was attempting (obviously poorly) to connote, however, I will still stand behind. Based upon texplorer's and others' comments it seems that there there are some people who apparently climb to "distinguish yourself from the masses" or for other "competitive" reasons. To me, that just seems sad. I really don't care what anyone thinks about my climbing style or abilities or the fact that I climb - I climb because I love it, not to impress anyone. from Lao Tzu: "concern yourself with the opinions of others, and you become their slave". So, if you want to think I'm an incompetent slow climber, go ahead, I don't care; if you want to climb car-to-car, have at it - I just can't see what the big hurry is about (unless there are objective hazards to consider, a weather window, or a time-off-work window).

Dru - my bivy sack and summer bag weigh less than 3 pounds, and don't really take up hardly any room at all. If the benefit of peacefully watching the sunset from high camp and spending a night under the stars isn't worth the cost of carrying an extra 3 pounds, then your are clearly not climbing for the same reasons I climb. I climb mountains because I love being up high, in the clean, fresh air, I love the feeling of the sun on my face, I love the feeling of exhaustion after a long day, I love the physical nature of the climb, I even love the marmots and the goats. I just love being outside away from my desk. From your comments and Chuck's, it seems as if you consider the outdoors nature of climbing to be an impediment to your enjoyment and not an integral part of that enjoyment. If that is so, I pity you. How any climber could mock spending a week at a mountain lake "to rot" is beyong me....

I can be at Exit 38 by 5:40pm once a week or so - which would allow for only a couple hours climbing. Let me know if you're interested.

I can't see how car-to-car could be the preferred style of ascent.... if you have a short weather window or only one day off work, then it may be necessary, but isn't the whole point of climbing to maximize the amount of time spent out-of-doors? If I have two days, I'm going to take them - who doesn't love a camp high on a ridge in summer?

Go to the Marmot store in Bellevue, pick out the gear you want, then do a search on google for the exact brand and item name. This usually works for me - for soft items you'll probably end up buying from a US based outlet (like Sierra Trading Post) and for the hard items, you'll get the best deals from Europe (you may need to use Babble Fish to translate the web sites to English).

If you're living anywhere near Seattle, make an appointment with the UW Elbow & Shoulder Clinic. Supposedly, they are the best shoulder doctors on Earth. I had chronic shoulder pain for years which my normal doctors couldn't diagnose, and which was not helped in the least by massage therapy. It took about 15 minutes at the UW before they realized that I actually had two extra ribs (cervical ribs) which were blocking blood and nerve signal flow. A couple months' PT later and not only do my shoulders no longer hurt, but hands don't go numb when I'm climbing either...

Hyenas are not canines.

Did you rope up? I was thinking of soloing...

Rodchester - what is a "per se bar to suit"? Finally, my point is that I don't believe that you will always get your legal fees back. In the couple times I've seen property owners attempt this, it took several months and cost them a LOT more money, and then one time they got awarded the fees, and then had it overturned on appeal simply because the judge didn't want to drive someone out of business for an "honest mistake". I don't doubt that what you are saying is true. What I am saying is that it's still not worth the risk to the property owner. Beyond the money, you also sacrifice a lot of time fighting these suits. And you never get your time back. OK, that's it, I've got to get back to work!

I didn't say lawyers didn't settle their cases. What I said was that it was generally in the interest of lawyers to fight (the longer the trial, the more money they get, plus they don't have to face serious downside risk). Most lawyers settle most of their cases because it's in their client's best interests... Of course, I've got much less experience in these matters than you... but from a difference perspective. Also, unless you're saying that everyone who owns a few million dollars worth of commercial property is a jerk, your last sentence can't be accuracte. Some of the nicest, most charitable, kind people I know have been sued over and over again, simply because they owned a piece of property where some drunk hit his head or fell asleep in a driveway and got himself run-over.