Fairweather

I sent a couple of emails myself. I'm sure you were joking but just so ya know, threatening or implying that you intend to use a sniper-caliber bullet on public officials could be considered criminal. Posting it on a website--just as dumb.

I'm sure a lot of folks care a great deal--myself included--but I'm not sure who would want to be associated with this type of nonsense: You should do your best to distance yourself and your cause from this type of idiot.

There's no denying that the Waddington Range trip report he posted a couple years back demonstrates an extraordinary level of back country wherewithal. (I don't mean this in a smart-assed way either.) Much like my little brother can't understand why I stop to take a bearing or mark a waypoint--or ask for a rope on 4th/low 5th--I suspect Wastral's competence level leaves him scratching his head when confronted with ordinary skill-sets. No insult intended.

Not to dog-pile on Wastral here, but I was even more horrified by this statement: Even if this statement excludes fog, snow, sleet, slide alder, denies the existence of cliffs, and ignores the darkness of night I believe it is still an utterly wrong suggestion. Dangerous, even.

Your reply flips your premise upside down and does not answer the original question. Are you saying the Discovery Pass accounts for 84% of WSP budget? or that 84% of Discovery Pass revenue reaches WSP? The latter is not the same thing as the former. I'll assume this was accidental, but your posts read like a symptom of the bureaucratic doublespeak that taxpayers and outdoor users are getting tired of.

Newsflash: The "D's" are in charge here. Have been for a long, long time. This would be a fair analogy if parents and students were asked to pay for school parking in addition to the taxes they already pay for K-12. I guess in the case of higher ed, it actually is a fair comparison. Yes, absolutely. We can always drive around. The state is violating state and federal law with its plan to "pre-toll" the 520 bridge. Likewise, its proposal to toll I90--already paid for with federal dollars. I have no problem with tolls used to pay off bonds/infrastructure, but this is not the same thing as placing a toll on state parks in perpetuity. Actually, I don't either. But the slippery slope here leads climbers and other risk-takers toward the same nanny-state abyss. Obamacare, anyone? Unemployment is insurance that wage-earners pay into. We can talk about whether indefinite extensions are a good thing, but your premise here fails. I agree. Taxpayers should never pay for privately owned/controlled stadiums. Um, it shows. May I suggest some Ed Abbey...

Again, park users have already shown a willingness to pay via the $5 voluntary surcharge affixed to annual car registration ($23 million/yr). Also, in the case of local parks, ballot propositions regularly pass throughout the state. I'll say it once again: park users seem to be falling victim to their own good deeds and intentions. This fee system will continue to work--for those who can afford it. But just accepting this with a smile would simply be asking for more. We are, IMO, obligated to give push-back and advocate for what we believe is the general good. If a few here want to practice some very minor (and somewhat childish) civil disobedience toward this end, then let 'em have at it.

Do you have the numbers on this? It's shocking, if true. And if it is, how can we users ensure that the remaining core budget isn't eviscerated in lieu of Olympia's new-found ransom? As I said here earlier, I believe that Parks and EMS are convenient bludgeons that state, county, and municipal governments use to punish recalcitrant taxpayers who dare to question the status quo in Olympia and elsewhere.

+1 for Ruth. The best views-to-effort ratio in the range, IMO.

Please, don't hate your two nieces just because they're smart and come from good homes. Tell them to go out and buy uncle Rob a 2011/12 Discover Pass with the money they're saving on tuition!

Monthly salaries of WA State Parks & Rec employees(minus retirement and other benefits). Impressive. http://lbloom.net/sprc09.html

Unfortunately, you're not: Teamsters Union takes aim at Pierce County park volunteers A union has filed a complaint with the state alleging that Pierce County edged union employees out of hours and pay by allowing non-union workers and volunteers to do park maintenance work. The 8-page complaint filed by Teamsters Local Union 117 also says the county went around the union by talking directly to workers about the potential closure of Sprinker Recreation Center and employee layoffs that might have ensued. The complaint alleges that the county broke state law that governs labor practices. The (county's) actions have had the effect of chilling union activity and undermining support for the union, the complaint says. It was sent this month to the state Public Employment Relations Commission, or PERC. The county declined to talk about specifics of the complaint, although Parks & Recreation Director Kathy Kravit-Smith said she would not intentionally violate a union contract. I would never do anything contrary to the contractual arrangement, she said. PERC issued a preliminary ruling Thursday, that there could be a fair labor practice violation. Preliminary rulings don't address the validity of claims; that comes later, said Cathleen Callahan, PERC executive director. The next step is for the county to respond, which must happen within 21 days of the preliminary ruling. Teamsters Local Union 117 represents 195 county employees, including park maintenance workers. The complaint says the county: •Scheduled non-union temporary workers for the Martin Luther King Jr. Day holiday in January, even though union employees were willing to work overtime and in the past had right of first refusal. •Allowed non-union workers, including those doing court-ordered community service, to do maintenance work during non-holiday hours without giving the union the chance to negotiate. •Allowed non-union volunteers to do maintenance work at Gonyea and Dawson parks, which was previously done by union employees, without giving the union the chance to negotiate. * Went around the union by holding a meeting in June directly with workers to discuss the potential closure of Sprinker Recreation Center. Workers were told the closure could result in up to six layoffs, according to the complaint. Sprinker no longer faces closure because the Pierce County Council has agreed to spend $6.1 million to repair the aging recreation center in Spanaway. In recent months, budget cuts have prompted the county to reduce maintenance at several parks, including Gonyea on 10th Avenue South and Dawson on 90th Street East. Kravit-Smith said the budget to hire extra workers to help with maintenance has dropped more than $240,000 since 2008. Community members have stepped up to help through the Adopt-a-Park program. People living near Dawson Park, for example, have mowed the grass and picked up garbage. The program has been around for 16 years and is included in county code, Kravit-Smith said. The county has other programs that use volunteers, including one in which they serve as park hosts, a task that includes some maintenance work, Kravit-Smith said. That program also has been around for years, she said. The County Council recently restored $80,000 in park money, which will go toward re-opening Dawson and Gonyea parks. Paul Zilly, a spokesman for Teamsters Local Union 117, said the union doesn't oppose community programs, but does want to ensure its workers aren't pushed out of hours or jobs. Zilly said Teamsters and county officials are scheduled to meet this week.

Uninformed useless driveling union thug? Just a guess, mind you.

You sound like you have a pony in this game. Lemme guess...

What's wrong with running start? Both of my nieces are in it, it's a great opportunity, and a well-educated citizenry sounds like a great investment for the future and exactly the sort of thing we should be investing in. I'd rather spend money on programs like running start than on well-groomed hiking trails, personally. I disagree. Trails are more important than a program which enables students with as low as a B minus GPA to obtain an associate's degree on the same day they complete high school. Why should your nieces get two years of 100% taxpayer-funded higher education? Since it is mostly the children of well-to-do families with strong support systems already in place who take advantage of this, it seems to me that Running Start is an unnecessary program for the affluent. Is giving a 'running start' to a kid such that he or she can obtain a bachelor's degree before their twentieth birthday really more important than public parks? I say no.

I know the climbing season is in full swing this time of year. Sure would be a bummer to spend $$$$ and time only to get hit with this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14116896

License and tax bicycles that choose to use our public streets.

Let's all hope McGinn isn't reading this...

Eliminate free tuition for WA State employees at all four year colleges/universities. They should pay their own way--just like everyone else. Eliminate the Running Start program. Eliminate the GET program--immediately.

Well, I think the extra five bucks we've all been paying on each of our vehicle registration renewals the past few years was/is a good program--as are the volunteer efforts of groups like WTA and other organizations. It does seem like this new 'Discover Pass' program is a slap in the face to those who have already demonstrated a willingness to pay or participate--or both. "Let no good deed go unpunished" seems to be the state motto in this case.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/Committees/WM/Documents/Publications/BudgetGuides/2011/2011CGTBFinal%28rev%29.pdf WA State 2009-11 All Budgeted Expenditures* (Dollars in Billions) Human Services $26.7 Public Schools $17.0 Higher Education $10.5 Transportation $8.0 Governmental Operations $5.7 Natural Resources $3.3 Debt Service/Other $3.6 2009-11 Sources of Revenue (Dollars in Billions) Taxes $30.3 Federal & Other Grants 22.6 Licenses, Permits, & Charges for Services 12.6 Borrowing 6.6 Other Sources (including Transfers) 1.9

From last summer... http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/07/26/1278506/union-takes-aimbrat-pierce-countybrpark.html Teamsters Union takes aim at Pierce County park volunteers A union has filed a complaint with the state alleging that Pierce County edged union employees out of hours and pay by allowing non-union workers and volunteers to do park maintenance work. The 8-page complaint filed by Teamsters Local Union 117 also says the county went around the union by talking directly to workers about the potential closure of Sprinker Recreation Center and employee layoffs that might have ensued. The complaint alleges that the county broke state law that governs labor practices. The (county's) actions have had the effect of chilling union activity and undermining support for the union, the complaint says. It was sent this month to the state Public Employment Relations Commission, or PERC. The county declined to talk about specifics of the complaint, although Parks & Recreation Director Kathy Kravit-Smith said she would not intentionally violate a union contract. I would never do anything contrary to the contractual arrangement, she said. PERC issued a preliminary ruling Thursday, that there could be a fair labor practice violation. Preliminary rulings don't address the validity of claims; that comes later, said Cathleen Callahan, PERC executive director. The next step is for the county to respond, which must happen within 21 days of the preliminary ruling. Teamsters Local Union 117 represents 195 county employees, including park maintenance workers. The complaint says the county: •Scheduled non-union temporary workers for the Martin Luther King Jr. Day holiday in January, even though union employees were willing to work overtime and in the past had right of first refusal. •Allowed non-union workers, including those doing court-ordered community service, to do maintenance work during non-holiday hours without giving the union the chance to negotiate. •Allowed non-union volunteers to do maintenance work at Gonyea and Dawson parks, which was previously done by union employees, without giving the union the chance to negotiate. * Went around the union by holding a meeting in June directly with workers to discuss the potential closure of Sprinker Recreation Center. Workers were told the closure could result in up to six layoffs, according to the complaint. Sprinker no longer faces closure because the Pierce County Council has agreed to spend $6.1 million to repair the aging recreation center in Spanaway. In recent months, budget cuts have prompted the county to reduce maintenance at several parks, including Gonyea on 10th Avenue South and Dawson on 90th Street East. Kravit-Smith said the budget to hire extra workers to help with maintenance has dropped more than $240,000 since 2008. Community members have stepped up to help through the Adopt-a-Park program. People living near Dawson Park, for example, have mowed the grass and picked up garbage. The program has been around for 16 years and is included in county code, Kravit-Smith said. The county has other programs that use volunteers, including one in which they serve as park hosts, a task that includes some maintenance work, Kravit-Smith said. That program also has been around for years, she said. The County Council recently restored $80,000 in park money, which will go toward re-opening Dawson and Gonyea parks. Paul Zilly, a spokesman for Teamsters Local Union 117, said the union doesn't oppose community programs, but does want to ensure its workers aren't pushed out of hours or jobs. Zilly said Teamsters and county officials are scheduled to meet this week.

We should expect one hell of a new outhouse at the Mount Si trailhead then, eh? 10.00 x full parking lot x number of turns per day x weekends/yr - cost of enforcing said policy = $$$$. I can almost understand this at the big state parks with programs/improvements--but Mount Si? Really?? And why not charge ped/bike users too? I don't get it.

In the case of public employee unions, yes. Absolutely. But this is off-topic. I was at a state park this afternoon and the new fee box was up. It will be interesting to see if public use of state lands/parks goes down. If not, well, then the people have spoken. Likewise if they stay away. I, for one, won't pay this new ransom if it turns out to be more than just a supplement to the existing parks budget. Does anyone really believe that the revenue generated by this fee won't be subtracted from future outlays?

When state/county/metro taxpayers get tired of the AFSCME/SEIU/WEA extortion racket and balk at the ballot box, Olympia (D) always seems ready to retaliate with its two favorite bludgeons: public parks, and EMS. Kind of funny how these are the very things the taxpayers always overwhelmingly support via levies, props, etc. Kind of a hostage situation, IMO.