Peter_Puget

As far as I am concerned all the 5.x a1/2 or 5.x c1/2 routes being reported in the alpine lakes forum are the result of a significant lapse of ethics! For shame! Leave those routes for someone who can climb them in good style!

No shit....but the bolts broke when I was in the 140s amaybe 130s.

I've had more bolts break on me unexpectedly than gear placements pull when I've hung on them. (Free climbing) Anyway JH your drifitng away from the subject of my post .....

The problem with the entire” trad” v Sport thing is that the words are (intentionally) not defined. For the most part a divide is created that serves a hidden agenda. “Trad free climbing ” originally meant to start at the bottom work your way up placing gear (including bolts) and lowering when you fell. No preinspection, no rap placed gear. Some of the major proponents of” trad” ethic often used bolts – Tom Higgens. Usually bolts were kept to a minimum but that was always a grey area and not a defining characteristic of the” trad” ethic. “Trad” existed before the era of “clean” climbing. Most people on cc.com twist” trad” out of its historical meaning. I climb with a bunch of people who when they climb “sport” routes if they fall they lower and pull rope because they are tradsters but are they sporters too? Fuck definitions those who use them in debates like this are usually up to no good. Most often their desire is to either elevate their own reputation or to denigrate someone elses. SexyC it's not my cliff to reveal.

Various random thoughts on this thread: (1) Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/opinion/29mon1.html?_r=1 In 2008, U.S. health spending was about $2.4 trillion; 2004-2008 spending would be roughly $10 trillion. So even if these three big insurers held just 1% of the market each and their behavior were typical, we're talking we're about .1% of total spending. If companies were really targeting big claims, the fraction of affected individuals would be much smaller. ($300,000,000/20,000= $15,000 per claim) (2) Big Pharma! I think total Pharm expense is roughly 10% of healthcare expeditures. Given the current inflation rate of healthce in the US if God covered all our drug expense going forward we'd have some immediate savings however we'd only be about a year back. (total exp 100- phamr costs 10= costs after god gift 90 90 * 1.1 (10% inflation rate) = year two expense 99) (3) Here’s an interesting link: http://www.jstor.org/pss/2138695 Hre is a free version of the article: click me (4) Hmm I wonder how many MDs would go to a gastroenterologist with an orthopedic problem. Why would anyone go to an MD or MHA for an economic analysis? As to the depth and quality of this article consider how often he topic of cross subsidies comes up. Consider their methodology calculating Canadian healthcare administrative costs. Finally consider how they accounted for the marginal deadweight of each dollar taxed. The article is pretty darn poor in terms of quality. On a related if there exists important scale economies in administration, why do we not observe a long-term decline in the number of insurers accompanied by an increase in their average size? Your BS detectors should be maxed when anyone offers you a free lunch even if it is quite meager. (5) This isn’t a real full blown paper but it does contain some thought provoking ideas: http://hanson.gmu.edu/showcare.pdf (6) Healthcare in the US is most certainly not "free market" by any stretch of the imagination.

Heard while I was belaying on that roof pitch: "Top Roping is really fun!"

at least the good parts! I'm guessing you mean the lowest skirts of the majestic peak, as in Icicle Creek? Not a big Icicle fan....the approaches for the good routes are so freakin' long you might as well be on Stuart..certainly the CBR approach is easier and that's craggin' too. Stuart has featured in my climbing lately. The latest rage is sandstone bouldering with wicked views of Stuart! The cooler in the car is never more than 100 steps away!

at least the good parts!

Consider.......

Z is the man....yea those boys on USSM sure dont understand clubhouse chemistry......

Ah Well I wont know what to think until the USM site is back up..........

By the way I am all about club house chemistry

I was being BUG

A little over three hours to go! Oh yea I here USSMariner is on its way out because its alienated all the fans not into sabemetrics. SO fuck off!

Climber now "alienated" by cc.com

Somehow I think you are making it all up. American Zombie is a fun movie!

Thanks! Chicks dig the H2 too!

I call BS. I doubt you knew I was going to post an American Zombie promo. And I traded in my H1 for an H2...I wont drive any vehicle that can't easily use the REI parking lot.

Dr Z in the foreground thinking of his next move. Dave at USSMariner in the background confused......

Last foul ball I touched gave me a bruise that lasted the better part of a week.

No shit. If the left really cared about people they would mandate FREE baseball everywhere...... This last home stand was tough...........

Why don't you setup as follows: Bolt=>Hanger=>Quick=>Chain

Givent the route description if the guy fell, lowered and and shot the roof again I think most people would give him the FA. I know I would. Any quibbling would just be sour grapes. Now if he hung that would be a different story.

The "no falls" thing is kind of a stretch there Blake.