kevin

Glad to see this thread. John was a rare bird who will be missed by more people that I will ever even meet.

A lot of these routes that typically get good ice in sept do so at least in part due to the routine, sub-freezing overnight temps. Many nights through july/august never freeze even at the high elevations. So that said, I would question the assumption that the ice will just form earlier. Its possible that this will happen on the deep, north facing gullies but its also possible that they will just simply melt.

I'm pushing 27 years and still haven't made the summit yet:)

The weather was great last weekend, comfortably cool and mostly sunny. We climbed on icicle butress, BOB wall and castle rock and most everything was dry. Pretty close to perfect climbing conditions in my book.

I went to BOB wall in leavenworth on sat and tried to climb the 5.10a undercling/lieback crack. I forget the name, but its really obvious if you've been there. Goatboy and I got totally humbled by what I now think may be the hardest 10a in existance. Anyone out there climbed this crack before? what did you think? Is there just some trick I was missing?

"My question is, should it take 4 days for the trip, or are we just slackers? " The first time I climbed whitney I was acclimated to sea level and it took all day to get to a point halfway between upper boy scout and iceberg lakes and I was worked. The second time I was acclimated from living at 7000 feet for a few months and made it all the way to iceberg in an easy afternoon. The altitude is the real killer.

One other possibility would be to lower the climber to the ground or a ledge if available providing enough slack to rappel normally. I agree with fern that you would want to consider your partners condition and if lowering them could further injure them. Every situation would need its own call on this issue, however, if I was lacking the equipment to safely and efficiently get down to check my partner, then I might consider taking the risk of lowering them in favor of being able to get help more quickly. Good thoughtful topic...

Goran will be remember for his accomplishments. Remaning the route seems inappropriate, but a memorial could be alright if it seems necessary. My question is: don't you think that his accomplishments are far more substantial than some carving. To me it almost seems to undermine the fact that his accomplishments alone are enough to keep around the memory.

Has anyone been on this route lately or checked it out from nearby? Is the ice "in"? I've heard the approach can be a bit tricky, anyone have any approach beta? thanks [ 10-08-2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: kevin ]

While I generally agree that slings are better than qd's for trad, air guitar is so straight that no quick draw at all would probably have been fine. Air guitar is a clean crack in good rock and I would like to know what happened so I don't end up with a similar fate. I am a grad student at WSU in materials science and I have access to all kinds of failure analysis tools and techniques and I could determine what initiated the failure (overloading or material defect) of this carabiner with a couple days work. Erden, if you are interested, please let me know and I would be happy to do this work.

I don't know dru. The Avatar maybe too small to tell, but if that's a papa new guinean's penis, ITS not too small to tell.

I've done a fair amount of solo aid with just a clove hitch. Pretty much any time I have to free a section I'm scared shitless. For the transition out of the aiders, it really helps to do an extra aid move (hook or something of the cracks has ended) so that you can step out of the aiders without having to go up. If you have a good stance you can clip a couple of the loops of the daisy and aider to the biner to keep it from dragging behind. Often, you done have that oppotunity, though. I use a homemade chest harness/double gear sling so I can clip the biner to the sternum strap which keeps the daisys somewhat out of the way and then I flip the aiders over my shoulder so they are somewhat our of the way. When they do get caught up below you, the best option is usually to curse out loud. Actually, I got an aider stuck in a crack while free a section near the top of the prow and was in a really committing move, so I just unclipped it and left it there. I still had three aiders which was enough to finish the pitch. Then I retrieved it when I rapped down to clean the pitch. I haven't ever used any of the solo devices, but I would imagine they make the free climbing a lot less stressful. I just keep hearing all the "rare exceptions" where they won't catch a fall. I know that my clove hitch is pretty fail-proof. I have taked several falls, including a 15-20 foot factor two, on the clove hitch and it has never slipped an inch. Despite that I still usually back it up with a figure 8. Aid soloing is super fun - keep experimenting. That seemed to be the key for me.

As for your question, icegirl. I was on Kangaroo ridge saturday when the lifeline helicopter and an army chopper flew over. I have no factual information, but what I heard at the Liberty bell overlook was that a climber fell 100 feet on Cutthroat, sustained serious injuries and was helivaced off the mountian. I also heard that numberous helicopter problems resulted in the need to send a total of three choppers before they got him out.

Yes iodine tabs go bad. Often within six months, I've found. As soon as the color starts getting spotty and they don't dissolve easily they are losing effectivness. An alternative is the liquid idodine found in drug stores. Equally effective as the tablets it is far less expensive and allows you to control how much you use. Just a couple drops left for longer periods of time are as effective as one tablet left for twenty minutes and hardly takes on any of the iodine flavor. If I'm treating my water I usually carry two bottles. When one is empty I refill it and add about two drops of idodine. Its usually at least a couple hours before the other runs out so the iodine has plenty of time to act. I, too, often don't treat my water, but I try to be aware of what is upstream (stock trails,etc) and decide to treat/not treat accordingly.

I'm primarily interested in alpine rock and/or snow routes. I have climbed at spring mountain and think its a great place, but I'm more interested in longer alpine stuff. Enchainments would be wonderful.