mattp

What else are you going to do when faced with a cc.com thread about "moderates" but split hairs? Lets see the thread about "favorite hard climbs." Nope. No disagreement or posturing there! Remember: we're all just wasting time at work. (Who's autosig was that?)

As to the Grade VI, I understand where you are coming from. Peter, but I think 90% of those who consider themselves climbers would say there is nothing moderate about a Grade VI. Yes, Wayne's Sunribbon Arete is only 5.9 and I think that's why he thought it met the definition of moderate, but only in the context of a conversation about what all or nearly of us here would call "hard" climbs would it be called "moderate."

I'm not complaining. I just find it amusing. That and I'm looking to see if I can encourage some less deserving climbers to chime in along with you elites.

Peter: Is that your definition of "moderate?" When was the last time you climbed 5.11b/c? Grade VI? WI 5? (I realize, of course, that it could have been last weekend but, for most of those in this thread, I bet it wasn't.)

Hey: I listed The Tooth! That's been cascadeclimbers' biggest joke in the past. But it is a great climb and I was just raving about it on Saturday. Fenderfour and I will stick up for you.

Now that you've got the stones, Eric, lets hear your recs for moderate climbs for the moderate climber. I listed one that most of the regular posters here probably wouldn't even rope up for!

I understand where you are coming from, John: standards are going up all the time and something that was cutting edge 25 years ago no longer raises an eybrow. Slipstream is certainly not "extreme." You could take the first two words of Webster's definition and squeeze Slipstream in there but, of the big name climbs listed here, how many of the people posting on cc.com or even posting in this thread have climbed a bunch of routes much more difficult and bigger?

Seriously, John: that is your definition of "moderate?" Layton has set some of you folks up for a joke!

I should say my favorite moderate climb is the [insert big name climb], with confidence that it is bigger, harder, and/or gnarlier than anything you other poseurs are likely to be climbing. Instead, I'll suggest The Tooth (fantastic beginners route), West Ridge of Pigeon Spire (short alpine scramble with great ambiance), and High Exposure (historic Gunks classic 5.6 with about forty feet of the coolest 5.6 anywhere).

Believe me, that actually WAS 5.scary. Here's another incredible first ascent along the same vein: [font:Comic Sans MS]At the Climbers' Picnic we're gonna show you some great pictures of climbs and ski descents that will be sure to hit the top of your list for 2008! Woodland Park, Seattle. 6:00 p.m., Wednesday April 30 Picnic Shelter #6: Gear Swap Barbeque Beta [/font]

Your training regimen is probably better than most of those who attempt Rainier. If you are carrying 60 pound packs up mailbox peak and feeling OK, you'll be fine on Rainier. If you really want to train for optimum results you'd want to find something to do midweek as well. Go to a health club and get on the stairmaster on tuesday's and thursdays (leave the pack at home unless you don't mind getting funny looks, and I doubt it is a good idea to train with a 60 pound pack 3 days a week anyway).

The lefthand of the basins shown in my overview is Sill Basin, and a first reported ascent of it was listed in the Northwest Mountaineering Journal a few years ago. nwmj.org 2004 From the gas station at Mine Road, you don't see the basin to the east. (You'll see what I mean if you compare the satellite peaks at upper right in your "overview" and the ridgeline bordering your route on the left to those shown in my "overview" and then look at my photo that is incorrectly labeled in the most recent Beckey guide.) Older editions of the guidebook used a photo that didn't show the "righthand" basin very well. From Darrington itself, you don't see the westerly one at all. Here's my photo on the upper part of that Whitehorse Glacier Route. You can see that part of the intermediate background ridgeline is similar to one of yours:

We can't tell you where this climb is - not publicly. We don't want the place to get crowded. Come to the picnic, though, and maybe I can tell you if you promise to keep it secret.

Good one. Here's an overview: For those interested in this climb, the route is illustrated wrong in the guidebook. It takes the righthand basin, in the middle of the photo here.

Golden chain will do pretty well with minimal care, I expect. We cut a bunch of brush out of our yard, including a gold chain tree that was unable to support itself after we removed all the brush around it, so we took that down too. There were several sprouts the next year - from seed, I think. The golden chain had grown up amid a bunch of laurel and maple mixed with blackberries in a location where I doubt it had any kind of watering or care of any kind ever. I've seen some rather attractive ones around that I bet were heavily pruned as the trunk divided into several and the several divided again, making a complicated lacy looking tree unlike the beanstalk that we had.

Doug, I was being facetious, but only sort of. Think about it: what had GW really done so well before he became president? (Hint don't look up his oil company or ball team). And the second time? We already knew he was a failure in so many important ways. And How ‘bout Bill Clinton? Was he a fantastic governor in Arkansas? I don’t remember anything about that but he was promising to bring a new age to Washington. Was he reelected because he sent troops to Mogadishu? Is how you weigh Hillary or Obama or McCain really based on some objective scorecard of what they’ve accomplished? If so, you are in a distinct minority.

Yup, there's definitely sausages and then there are sausages. Not to malign the missus or anything, but those fancy turkey and some damn thing yuppie healthfood ones my wife brings home from the Metropolitan Market just aren't the same as the real thing.

Ask nice and he can score some tofu dogs.

That's completely out of bounds. You mean a candidate for President has to be able to show some past success at leadership? Are you next going to suggest that COMPETENCY counts?

That must be his standard line. A few years ago he dropped a few of us off on a rock knob that was protruding from an intermittent fog bank and he asked "Are you sure you know where you are?" And then "Are you sure you can get down from here?" And that was it. He took off. We immediately triggered an avalanche by ski-cutting the slope adjacent to our perch, and the descent was thereby rendered good to go. Thanks for the report. It reminds me I gotta go back up there.

The North Peak of Cannon Mountain is a pretty good day tour. Approach from the extension of the road beyond the Mountaineers Creek trailhead, and climb via the basin north of the peak and the Cannon Mountain Couloir that is prominent when viewed from Bridge Creek Campground, or follow the road a little further and skin up the west slope.

As far as the grills go, I think there are one or two inside the shelter and some others not too far away but they are kind of crude and your Hibachi will lend a certain civilized aire to the whole thing -- especially if it is raining or something and the outside ones are for that reason less desirable.

Lets all play nice and not have a brawl like happened last year, OK?

I spent the entire day of earth day on cascadeclimbers.com. If Al Gore was a climber, that's what he would do.

I agree. 50m is plenty long for pitch length and a coil of rope that is 50m long is a little easier to handle - fits in my hand better - than a 60m.