mattp

Most of the posts indicate a concern for weight, but I do not see much discussion of how the packs might carry the weight of what is stuffed inside. Assuming that we are talking about packs which will be used to carry several days' food, storm clothing, a tent, sleeping bag, climbing hardware and ropes -- as opposed to a day-pack -- I believe the emphasis should be on a pack that carries that load comfortably rather than on a concern over whether the pack weighs 7 pounds empty or 5 pounds empty or even 3 pounds. Personally, I carry one of the heaviest packs you can get - a McHale - and I would not trade it for anything else in a normal mountaineering situation. I like it because the waist belt is the most comfortable I have ever had on any pack, and this is not something I could say about my Arcteryx Khamshin, because it is so tough (some say overbuilt) that I never worry about hauling it up a cliff or anchoring it by the haul loop, and because it doesn't have extras like a crampon pouch or shovel pocket or side pockets or a confusing load stabilizing strap system. While the McHale packs may not be for everybody, my point is that a pack should be tested with a full load in it and that the empty weight of that pack is probably the least important of all possible considerations. To lighten the load, leave behind all the doo-dads and extra food.

Squire Creek wall is quite an adventure. If you go, be prepared for brush, rockfall, and unconventional anchors (mostly old bolts, some home-made hangers, lots of bolts without hangers, etc). Pitons are handy. Having said that, it is a remarkable piece of stone, and I hope to get back up there this summer! [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 05-29-2001).]

It's Andy Selters, I believe. And yes, Max, you are right: it is much harder than you can believe. Try it sometime, on a warm day when you are well rested, and you will find it difficult. Then imagine doing it when the weather sucks and you are tired and maybe you have big packs. Travelling on the middle third (or less) of the rope is a good idea as well.

In addition to being thought ineffective for most ice climbing (I bet it would hook nicely in thin ice), Scott noted that the positive pick angle has been said too aggressive for a self arrest on a hard surface (in fact, many years ago MSR was recommending a modification, the filing of a tiny notch out of the bottom tip of the pick, to reduce the tendency for it to grab too hard in a self arrest). Some of the discussion in this posting has focused on weight and strength of axes. Strength may be less of an issue than you might think -- I have never heard of a metal handled axe breaking or even bending, though I'm sure it could happen. However, the weight issue cuts both ways. First of all, the spike material may be a consideration if you use your spike in the ice while climbing French style (Chouinard called this Piolet something-or-other). An aluminum spike will dull very fast, especially if you use the axe like a cane when on rock or a trail. Also, you should realize that an extremely light axe will not penetrate well when swung at ice or even firm neve snow, but if you plan to use it mostly on non-technical climbs and glaciated approaches to rock routes, the lighter the better.

Be carefull is right. Anytime you are relying on a complicated arrangement involving ropes and gadgets, watch out! I have rope soloed a few climbs myself and it's damn near as scary as aid climbing, if you ask me. However, on moderate terrain that is less than vertical, consider just tying knots to each successive piece and giving yourself enough leash to make it to the next visible stance. A prussik belay can offer some degree of pro as you proceed to that next stance. In the event of a fall, this system would place maximum stress on the top piece because there will effectively be no rope out, but there would be solid backup and the whole arrangement is simple and effective in the right situation.

Hey guys: What about Donna's original question? What do you think about the growth and commercialization of climbing? Like many others, I posted a response that said, in part, "that's just the way it is," but is that all there is to say on the topic?

Good comments! The idea that these are public resources and that we who take it upon ourselves to alter them are acting as custodians and should be accountable to other climbers (and nonclimbers too, I suppose) and respectful of the opinions of others is sometimes lost in the pursuit of fame and fortune or obscured by the belief that we know what is needed to "improve" a route. The possibility that a project such as the retrobolting of DDD might be undertaken in stages, to encourage public comment, is (to me at least) a novel idea and one that is probably a good one in a place like Castle Rock, where a long climbing history and high number of users will mean that any alterations are in fact likely to see great public comment. I don't mean to suggest that it doesn't matter what you do where nobody is looking, but it is certainly a different situation on a more remote and perhaps less historic crag. And yes, I would sure hate to see somebody now go and butcher the route by chopping the bolts even though I have mixed feelings about their being installed.

I agree with Caveman and Bronco. I enjoy meeting other people out enjoying themselves in the mountains, and I believe that it is generally a good thing for there to be lots of people who value wilderness areas and roadside crags for recreational use because these people are generally motivated to preserve open space and habitat as well as to maintain at least some semblance of a healthy lifestyle. As to the commercialization of the sport, I do find it sad that everyone believes they must have the latest in gizmos and plastic clothing where when I was young all we had was Sears workboots and a P-38 can opener and these tools were sufficient to do the job. However, that just seems to be the way it is (I myself can't even write a letter without a P450 or higher microchip and laser printer). Similarly, it is sad that we focus more on the rating or the name recognition than the beauty of our climbs, but books with "Extreme" in the title sell more copies than "Starlight and Storm." So maybe what you're talking about, Donna, is the general degradation of society and our alienation from self, or something like that. And I'm not denigrating your post because I would have to say that corporate greed causes the vendors and magazine publishers to push everything that is wrong with our sport and little that is right with it. But we don't have to fall for that. One last point - if you would like to have a mountain to yourself, go try one of the thousands of climbs that is not in "Select Climbs" and does not have three stars in a guidebook -- you will likely see nobody.

Did you do it? How was the snow?

Go as far as you can on Friday. For acclimitization, spending a night at the White River campground would be better than sleeping in the lowland, and there is good camping at Glacier Basin, and even part way up the interglacier (on the ridge of Mount Ruth). Assuming you are making good time and this means you get as far as the top of the Interglacier before mid afternoon on Saturday, err toward stopping early. There are good camp spots on the ridge along side the Interglacier just before you drop down on to the Emmons, and also at Camp Schurman. There would be little advantage in pressing on to, say, the Emmons "Flats" just to make a higher camp on Saturday night -- particularly if that meant you didn't rest up and hydrate properly. Also, there is some research to suggest that spending the night at such a high elevation only causes you to be more prone to altitude illness on your climb, unless you took several nights to get there. Expect a lot of work if you are going this weekend - there is a lot of new snow and more on the way.

None of the prior posts has indicated how far the road might be open, but if prior knowledge is going to change your plans at all you might find out from the ranger at Trout Lake. The current avalanche forecast indicates that you should expect deep snow (as should be obvious because it has been cold and wet for most of the last month). If you are thinking of taking skis to the summit, "just for fun," you might consider using skins and leaving the snowshoes behind because the approach will mostly be on roadbed or gentle terrain (there are a couple of short steep hills near timeberline where you could take the skis of and swim if you had to, but then it doesn't steepen again until the "headwall" above the lunch counter where, hopefully, the wind and sun will have hardened things up for you). Consider camping at timberline which, not looking at a map, I would guess is about 7,000 feet. There is water available and better shelter in case it is windy. Also, this will save you from lugging your camping equipment farther than necessary. In addition, I believe the Forest Service has been trying to discourage camping at the lunch counter because the place cannot properly handle the sewage and garbage that accumulates there (not that you would be as much of a slob as some, but there is always some spillage). The South Ridge is a good ski route, though this is probably not the best time for it. The predicted avalanche hazard is fairly significant and the weather is supposed to be showery so visibility may be minimal. On skis, the initial drop from the summit is usually rough going on sastrugi, and the initial drop from the false summit can be intimidating even if you aren't traveling in a white out or worried about starting an avalanche. Enjoy.

I don't want to sound wreckless, but I would feel quite safe going up there to bivvy on the moraine below the Colchuck Glacier, and its a nice place to camp. You would only be there for six or eight hours prior to the climb - at night in stable weather when the rockfall is at a minimum. Sure, there have been massive rockfalls from Dragontail - one look at the face will tell you that - but when I have been there the spray zone did not extend very far accross the Colchuck Glacier and a massive event which takes out the moraine can't be considered likely. Look at the picture in the Nelson book and try to imagine what it would take for this to occur. If the extreme rockfall event is a concern, the source could just as easily be Colchuck Peak as Dragontail.

I would say that Jens and W got it right - it is a great route, the fin is really cool, and don't worry about the off width. I am not a terrifically gifted off width climber, but I found it no problem to lead that pitch, with a pack on, with no # 4 or #5 Camelot but just a single #11 hex (the pitch is not that steep and, while you may struggle a bit to slither up it, a real fall is unlikely). I climbed the route in the first week of May on an average year and it was mostly dry even then, though we had drinking water en route. However there is one point on which I would differ with the prior postings: If you bivy at the base, you can easily do the climb in a day, but the best descent would not be via Aasgard. Descend from the summit SE, soon traversing S and maybe a little SW to a gully that will take you down to the back to the col at the head of the glacier below the climb (what is this-the Colchuck Glacier?. You can then pick up your camping equipment left at the base of the climb without having to climb to get to it.

It is a little early in the year for climbing at Darrington, and snow lingers at the base of the climbs. We found snow covering the bottom 30 feet of Silent Running, almost the entire first pitch of Total Soul, and assumed there are snow patches below the South Buttress of Three O'Clock Rock. There is still snow at the base of The Cone, and there is snow above the Granite Sidewalk approach to Blueberry Hill (enough that I would worry that it might cut loose on a warm day). We couldn't see it, but I bet there is still some snow in the gully leading up to Green Giant Buttress. Although we were there between rain storms on Sunday and the rock was a little slick, the normal words of advice would apply and I would bet that the rock on the Blueberry Hill or Green Giant climbs would be dry the second day following a moderate rain event, while The Comb, Three O'Clock Rock, and Witch Doctor (all NE facing) might take longer to dry. The road is in pretty good shape and a regular car can make it all the way to the normal parking places, though you may scrape bottom on the extensions to Green Giant or Blueberry, and both of these have brush growing in so that you should not go beyond Three O'Clock Rock if you are one of those people who is paranoid about your paint job. In addition to replacing some old bolts, we did some road maintenance (brushing and filling holes). I'm going to the Saint Elias Range for three weeks, but is anybody interested in helping out this Summer? The Washington Trails Association is going to work on the Squire Creek Pass trail again this year, and we hope to pursue some other projects.

Another one from Index. In about 1979 or 80, I thought I'd try out the new crack 'n ups I bought at REI, to get ready to go try The Nose. I started up City Park and everything seemed to be going pretty well until, for no apparent reason, one of these little devils blew on me. The crack wasn't as hammered out then as it later became, so the stopper placements weren't quite as good as they are now. I ripped three of them, broke a biner on one that held, and continued to fall, about 70 feet, to be caught, upside down, about ten feet off the deck. Hippy Fred was sitting back against a tree, smoking his pipe, and gazed up at me to say "hey, man, wanna smoke some hash?"

Somebody pointed out that I might have come off a bit snide in my previous reply. I don't mean to be offensive - the purpose of these forums truly is to share information, and that is exactly what ChucK's posts did. By pointing out "the obvious," I was commenting - in my snide way - about people I observe out on these climbs, not ready for what might happen to them. By the way, last Sunday we replaced some old 1/4" bolts on Silent Running at Three O'Clock Rock with new 3/8 stainless. No more meathooks on the crux pitch.

Whiner ChucK - the whole point of a discussion like this is to report information which may be of use to climbers, I merely felt it a good idea to point out the obvious. As to Fudd: Fuddhat was largely restored in April last year, and the repairs were completed at the end of the season. I don't know if anyone has been up it yet this year. Also, I believe the last of the old 1/4" bolts on Shock Treatment have been replaced with 3/8" stainless steel. Static Point lives.

Chuck notes that there is a rappel from a tree with half it's root ball exposed near the top of Total Soul, on Three O'Clock Rock in Darrington. True, perhaps, but the last time I was up there (July, 2000) the tree looked fine to me. If not, there is a very large tree just below, a tree over a foot and perhaps over two feet in diameter. Anybody climbing an eight pitch route oughtta have some extra slings in their pack anyway and if they don't like the smaller tree they could sling the big one (the smaller one is more convenient). A bolt station could be added to the rock nearby, and it would create a very comfortable stance for the switch-over, but I'm not sure it is necessary. Note: a belay station on Fuddhat, on Static Point, was destroyed by rockfall during the winter of 1999-2000, and a party climbing that route in March, 2000, was very glad to have brought with them some extra sling and some quicklinks. Remember the old Boy Scout motto, and "be prepared."

That tree fell over a year ago, during the winter 1999-2000, apparently having been taken out by an avalanche or rockfall. Every winter, things fall from the slabs and I, personally, worry much more about the sheets of rock that peel of these exfoliating domes than I do about a tree or a bush coming loose (even a quite small bush is usually very difficult to remove from a crack should you ever try to do so). However, carefully checking trees and bushes before you rappel from them would be a good idea.

I understand why skiers and hikers might not want to see snowmobiles on Mount Baker - I don't like to see them there myself. But consider this: as far as I know, the Easton Glacier is the only glacier in the State that they are allowed on. And it is probably one of very few that they could even get to. If you don't like them, there are other places one can go.

I'd be interested in climbing Sloan. Do you have any weekends coming up? This past weekend I tried the N. Face of Big Four Mountain and the snow was waist to neck deep and slushy up to 4,000 feet, because the predicted cold front did not really materialize. I would guess we'd find those same conditions on the approach to Sloan right now, thought the higher part of the mountain might be pretty good. Even if the approach is grueling, I figure an attempt is better than staying home. - Matt Perkins

Doug Swan and I climbed Eldorado via the regular route February 24-25 and the Eldorado Creek approach was in great shape, with little snow in the woods below the boulders, but plenty of cover on the boulders themselves. There was 6-15" of dry powder on a generally firm base above timberline, and we skiied from the summit crest to 4,000 feet. However, the west side of the ridge between Eldorado Creek and Roush Creek was a chest-deep mess, largely hollow underneath. -- Matt Perkins

sorry, I mis-typed the address for my page. It is http:www.seanet.com/~mattp/Darr

If you want to climb granite domes without driving to California, check out Darrington. The season usually doesn't begin 'till May or later, but here is the link for my Darrington web page. http://www.seanet.com/~mattp/Darr - matt perkins

Here's my Darrington page. If you like traditional rock climbing, and want to climb on granite domes without driving to California, check it out. http://www.seanet.com/~mattp/Darr - matt perkins [This message has been edited by mattp (edited 04-23-2001).]