mattp

For alpine rock, I think the Bugaboos is hard to beat. The Beckey Chouinard route(W. Buttress of S. Howser) is an absolutely fantactic climb, and one that I climbed early on in my career. I have fond memories of the climb, and of my first alpine bivouac which followed from our getting benighted on the descent. However, for just plain fun, the W. Ridge of Pidgeon Spire is impossible to beat. At third and fourth class with one 5.4 pitch at the top, it will not gain any chestbeating points, but the route traverses impeccable rock for a quarter mile, high in the sky above real glaciers, and culminates in a very airy summit. Somebody once wrote that "if you don't enjoy that climb you just don't enjoy being in the mountains." I agree.

I have climbed The Kone in the rain -- and I don't mean just a drizzle. The shoes actually worked pretty well! So go get it this weekend.

Cavey - I'm glad they made it OK. I'm not suggesting speculating and I don't mean to suggest any lack of respect for your friends. I simply meant to note the tendency for that particular route to prove to be significantly more serious than many parties expect. Although it carries a moderate rating and the descriptions indicate there are only a few "difficult" pitches, it is a big route.

it is actually on Capitol Hill.

I have known of several people to find Dragontail larger than they bargained for -- it seems most often to happen on Serpentine Arete. Did they run into trouble, or did it just take longer than expected?

TUESDAY...PARTLY CLOUDY IN THE MORNING...MOSTLY SUNNY IN THE AFTERNOON. HIGHS 65 TO 70. WEST WINDS TO 10 MPH RISING TO 10 TO 20 MPH. TUESDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLEAR. LOCAL FOG AND LOW CLOUDS. LOWS NEAR 50.

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Depending on how far you drive (are you worried about your paint job?) you will hike about two miles before running into a sign informing you that you must turn around, hike out, drive back accross the border, and get a wilderness pass at Sedro Wooley and a customs entry permit or some such thing at the border.

So how about it? It IS Tacoma's turn, but not only is Mr. Beckey requesting an event at the Park Tavern on Phinney Ridge, but I believe that last week Victoria informed us that this week would be her birthday and she requested a Seattle pubclub night. That would make four weeks in a row in Seattle, I know.

Peter Puget was going to host a get-together at Index. Matt Heller posted, looking for partners. Matt Heller has partners. Matt Heller must be Peter Puget.

We have the best damn solistice in the Free World. Just ask us.

I'm not sure I can go, but I'm contemplating a moonlight climb tonight -- Silent Running, perhaps. My fantasy would be to drive up there after rush hour and start climbing as the moon rises over Exfoliation Dome (this should be right about dusk). Anybody for a little solstice (shortest night of the year) celebration?

cc.com IS great just how it is, but it could be even better. Think about it -- with just a small change in the attitude of a few individuals, we could have the same opportunity to share information and jokes and jive and to discuss important or inane issues, and we might have a chance to hear from not only board office workers with thick skins, but from climbers who may be a little more sensitive. If the energy that is now put into personal attacks was channeled into actually trying to accomplish something, we might get somewhere. The quips and retorts can be amusing, but how much does it really add to the site to have people say that a whole class of climbers are pussies, that so and so is an asshole, or that their penis is bigger than someone else's?

Do you guys really think this is amusing?

Dru, in all of your spray I believe you have maintained at least some measure of respect for people with different viewpoints. Rock on.

Trask, I'm not suggesting the site should be free of all bathroom humor and conflict. But when somebody can't bring up a serioius question about an important topic like bolting ethics without the thread degerating - every single time - into a bunch of name calling and threats and the like, there is something wrong. While some may find it amusing, nobody can argue that this actually promotes an earnest discussion of the issue.

I agree about the soap opera nature of this whole affair, but it was pointed out to me that the fact that both of them have reacted as they have makes it appear as if they both had sincere interest in making their points and not just in grandstanding and being jerks.

Several pubclubbers had a campout there a couple of weekends ago, and there is ongoing talk of a more organized event some time this summer. If it were to be a larger event like last year's rope up, we might want to consider camping in the Clear Creek campground where there are toilets and water, though the unregulated camping up in Clear Creek is certainly more fun.

Is it Tacoma's turn? Erik noted that there is a growing contingent of some south-sounders. Might we invite them to the dity of destiny? That Beckey guy has been pestering me again -- saying that if all else fails, he'd like the Park, on Phinney Ridge, in Seattle.

Augusta appears in this photograph, showing the Malispina Glacier from space. Look for Mount Saint Elias, the most prominent peak at lower left, and follow it's range two large massif's to the right. I believe Mount Augusta is the broad roughly pyramidal looking peak above the "S" shaped glacier. The south face is 7,000 feet high. Here's the address: malispina [ 06-20-2002, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

Don't let Erik mislead you. That harness pack carries substances far more precious than sport drink but for these, you gotta buy the optional accessory sold only at select outlets. [ 06-20-2002, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: mattp ]

Peter Puget asked me to announce that he is withdrawing from the board and has given his password to Dwayner. I'm not sure why I was supposed to announce this, but here goes.

I understand K's and G's enjoyment of the spectacle, but I believe that all the insult and attack does real harm that should not be ignored because it fuels the fire that threatens to engulf other areas in the bolt wars and bullshit that goes on a Vantage. I'll be sorry to see either Dwayner or Puget go because they both have something to say and if they have reached some kind of epiphany about hateful spray, they could simply present their views in a less antagonistic manner.

Dennis, I believe you did as much or more to steer this discussion into the toilet than anybody. Why would you call Puget an asshole -- because you don't agree with him? And what is it that you don't agree with? He has repeatedly stated that bolts do not belong next to cracks -- isn't this your main point? -- but he argues that one cannot blame it all on generation x, Viktor's motivation to sell guidebooks, or the simple fact that everyone else in the world is an asshole. In another thread, Peter says he is signing off the board. I don't like the personal attack and I was sorry to see him start talking about penis size and so forth, but I will be sorry to see him go. As long as there are those who like to spew insults and hatred in the name of saving the rock, this board needs people like Puget or it is in danger of becoming a forum for a handful of guys to preach to theirselves.

Dru - Should we see if we can get peace-officer Larry to issue tickets for excessive or irresponsible bolting? I bet he could be good at this -- if we could get him to leave his cruiser and hike up the mountainsides. Then our canyon could be saved and we wouldn't have to fear encounters of larry kind in the parking lot because he'd be hiding in the bushes up at the Pearly Gates or somewhere where he could surely solve the crime of the century. I agree with you that it is up to us to act, and I indicated my support for some bolt removal -- like the principal that bolts do not belong where natural protection exists, I believe that nearly everybody who has participated in this debate agrees that there are at least some offensive bolts in the Icicle Creek canyon that should be removed. What we're talking about is how to undertake such a program and how to talk about it, before and after. Matt [ 06-19-2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: mattp ]