Leaderboard

Thanks for the negativity @Cptn_Sprayhab! Always super conducive to constructive conversation. I'm so sorry I don't update my insta-jizz to your instant standards. I am glad you had the time to check out my page though, thank you! I really don't care about this being an FA or not. I went back and worth about whether to post about it, but figured I'd do it to see (as my original disclaimer reads) if this particular line has been done before and if it had any history, as it was an intimidating and engaging crux (for my weak self at least). I think this conversation opens up a whole can of worms about FA's and grades and sharing stuff online and so on (I do try to stay away from spraying on MP, and I thought CC was a safe place). This is something I've wrestled with personally a lot. There are powerful stories to tell from up there, but at what point does sharing your story dilute the experience and open it up to analysis and judgement from folks who weren't there and don't know you? I am all for preserving sense of adventure and don't want to see everything put up online either. But climbing is not what it looked like back in the day, and at a certain point we have to simply accept that, and rethink our definition of adventure (which, news flash, is different for everybody). What makes me sad and somewhat disgusted at the climbing community is when I see ego evolved in our outdoor pursuits. It's all contrived as fuck. There are no rules. We're trying to fit square pegs (humans, grades, history) into round holes (nature). Especially when it comes to ice climbing, even grading things seems stupid, as there is so much variation from year to year, even day to day. Same with FA's. What does it really matter if someone climbed a particular piece of rock or ice before? I agree with you, it doesn't. What matters most is following your inspiration and coming up with your own adventures that challenge and excite you. Which is what we did here. I do acknowledge that I jumped the gun calling this a first ascent and posting on here and will learn from that mistake. I look forward to hearing what you consider to be a "real" FA. Are people like Steve House (or God forbid, the holy grail of IFMGA-land) the only ones with the authority to call something an FA? Do the only legit FA's involve having to travel halfway across the world to some foreign country, where the locals may not even know what climbing is and why people do it? Let's not take ourselves too seriously here, and just go have fun outside with our friends.

Thanks @Cliffordsa for the photos and info! Looks like the exit pitch was pretty dry for you as well? There's a random photo on mountain project that shows ice flowing down each side of the chockstone but I never saw it form in my many trips over there this year. @Cptn_Sprayhab I don't see a problem here. @ACosta originally said that the line may have been climbed before and promptly retracted the FA claims when we found out it had been. I find the pervasive "every square foot of Hood has been climbed" belief interesting. No one (so far) has taken issue with our Cathedral Ramp FA claim from a month ago. No one disputed Three Little Monkeys in 2018 or the Pencil in 2017. Other Black Spider routes were put up as recently as 2010 and no one complained about those either. Either all those lines were in fact unclimbed or the true first ascensionists have advanced into a Zen state of truly not caring at all. It's easy to assume some near mythical figure like the aforementioned Steve House would've done everything on Hood, but apparently when asked "what's the best alpine route in Oregon?" he settled on Jeff Park, which probably barely registers as "real climbing" to most of the people in this thread. So it's reasonable to think his Hood resume might not be that extensive. Of course there have been a lot of hard people who have done a lot of hard things on Hood, and some of them have undoubtedly kept quiet about it. It wouldn't surprise me if any number of the routes I mentioned above had been previously climbed. But if people are going to be purposefully secretive or reclusive then they're willingly removing their own voices from the conversation and there's not much the rest of us can do about it. Preserving "ground up adventure climbing" is an interesting topic of discussion but if that's a style of climbing you'd like to pursue shouldn't you just, I don't know, avoid spending time on climbing information websites like this one?

Looks like Adrien changed his Instagram post. Good for him, and knowing the guy, I bet he just didn't care enough about social media to make the change right away. Cptn, you quoted a post I made on the "Do summits matter?" thread. To be completely transparent I've made the same mistakes of assuming FA-ship in the past, its an easy mistake to make in the scheme of things. In fact, this past winter I claimed a couple "Second Ascents" which could very well be 10th ascents for all I know. That includes the Emde-Ablao on Middle Sister that Adrien and I did without any knowledge of the prior ascent and which I promptly sprayed about, so I'm probably a hypocrite here... though I do like the idea of preserving the adventure as I said, especially in Oregon where resources are limited. Anyway, mainly I'm psyched to see Adrien, Matt and others getting after it this winter and I think it would be awesome to have an Oregon crew competing for grants and making trips to bigger ranges like the Karakoram in the next few years to try exploring more off the beaten path objectives and getting some more good adventure stories here.

Here are all the photos we took that day.

Rad looking climbing. Somehow this got even cooler to me now that it’s been discovered that the route has been done before - both teams had incredible, adventurous experiences on the same route.

Brandon Seymore and I (Cliff Agocs) climbed this line in May of 2016. We chose it because it looked a little less heady than the Ravine. At the time, the first pitch was WI 3+ or so. The upper bits were moderate mixed. We never even considered if it might be a first ascent. It's hard to imagine any particular spot on Mount Hood still being unclimbed. There are probably some WI exceptions at different parts of the year on the North Buttress and on the Black Spider. However, on a moderate feature like the Eliot Headwall, it's pretty unimaginable that someone hasn't already wandered up into whatever patch of ice you climb. It is a fun route and a proud send, but it's not an FA. It's the Eliot Headwall - one of many variations. I'm happy to attach photos later, but they are on the harddrive of another computer that I don't have access to today. Happy to attach them, if folks want.