republican "wisdom"

[glassgowkiss]

This is what republican party is at the moment: a parade of stupid. Now this cherry:

stupid is what stupid says

"You have rocks," Christie said, being met with laughter. "What the hell do you need a rock climbing wall for? Tell the kids at UNH to go outside and climb those rocks."

Obviously if we are talking about epidemics, let's not talk about the epidemic of obesity, which he is clearly a shining example of. Picture is worth 1000 words- health is not a high priority for this fat fuck, but stupidity is.

[CWC01]

He's saying tuition is too high because colleges have no responsibility to control costs, using rock gyms as an example. It's ironic you don't understand his point but not exactly surprising.

[glassgowkiss]

You are just one stupid tosser. The fact is that the actual cost per student increased in Washington State less then the rate of inflation. The biggest issue is the way it is paid. While till about mid 90's the costs were split between state and federal funding, and in general students were responsible for about 20%. Now the students are responsible for about 80%. The actual cost of a climbing wall is a fraction of other sport programs, like football or basketball. According to you, the best thing would be just to dismantle college sports and fitness programs. Fat fuck Christie is a prime example of what happens, when you do that. I am sure his tax payer supported gastric bypass is a huge success, judging by the continuing slim waste line of this champion of fitness and logic. But I guess, support of the stupid is your thing.

[CWC01]

Football and basketball programs generally pay for themselves.

 

Please provide a source showing students only paid 20% until the mid 90's.

 

Out of curiosity, what college did you go to?

[glassgowkiss]

After adjusting for inflation:

 

Forty-eight states — all except Alaska and North Dakota — are spending less per student than they did before the recession.[1]

States cut funding deeply after the recession. The average state is spending $2,026 or 23 percent less per student than before the recession.

Per-student funding in Arizona, Louisiana, and South Carolina is down by more than 40 percent since the start of the recession (Louisiana is among the eight states that continued to cut funding over the last year).

Wyoming, West Virginia, Louisiana, Wisconsin, and North Carolina cut funding the most over the last year. Of these, all but Wyoming have cut per student funding by more than 20 percent since the recession hit.

(From http://www.cbpp.org/research/states-are-still-funding-higher-education-below-pre-recession-levels)

 

"This trend has meant that over time students have assumed much greater responsibility for paying for public higher education. In 1988, public colleges and universities received 3.2 times as much in revenue from state and local governments as they did from students. They now receive about 1.1 times as much from states and localities as from students.

Nearly every state has shifted costs to students over the last 25 years — with the most drastic shift occurring since the onset of the recession. In 1988, average tuition amounts were larger than per-student state expenditures in only two states, New Hampshire and Vermont. By 2008, that number had grown to ten states. Today, tuition revenue now outweighs government funding for higher education in 23 states with six states — New Hampshire, Vermont, Delaware, Colorado, Rhode Island, Michigan, and Pennsylvania — asking students and families to shoulder higher education costs by a ratio of at least 2-to-1."

 

Now, please show me your sources showing: "Football and basketball programs generally pay for themselves.". While it might be the case with SOME programs, this is NOT TRUE for vast majority of small and medium size colleges and universities.

 

Also: "Nationwide, employment at public colleges and universities has grown modestly since the start of the recession, but less than the growth in the number of students. Between the 2007-08 and the 2012-13 school years, the number of full-time equivalent instructional staff at public colleges and universities grew by about 7 percent, while the number of students at these institutions grew by 10 percent. In other words, the number of faculty per student declined nationwide. In three states — California, Nevada, and New Hampshire — full-time equivalent instructional staff at public colleges and universities fell between the 2007-08 and the 2012-13 school years, even as enrollment grew"

[glassgowkiss]

[CWC01]

I don't see data supporting "The biggest issue is the way it is paid. While till about mid 90's the costs were split between state and federal funding, and in general students were responsible for about 20%. Now the students are responsible for about 80%." I see many statistics that tuition has risen for a variety of reasons but none that show students were only responsible for 20% until the mid 90's.

 

What college did you graduate from?

[glassgowkiss]

well, there is no cure for lack of intelligence, and any further discussion with you on that matter would be clearly a complete waste of time.

"In 1988, public colleges and universities received 3.2 times as much in revenue from state and local governments as they did from students. They now receive about 1.1 times as much from states and localities as from students."

Sorry if I can't help you with your lack of basic calculations.

[CWC01]

I'm embarrassed for you. Wow.

 

There's no question tuition has soared but your interpretation is incorrect.

 

I assume since you avoided the question you didn't go to college.

[glassgowkiss]

I'm embarrassed for you. Wow.

 

There's no question tuition has soared but your interpretation is incorrect.

 

I assume since you avoided the question you didn't go to college.

I assume your mom fucked football team, hence your lack of intelligence. That would explain you thinking 1.1 is larger then 3.8.

[CWC01]

I'm embarrassed for you. Wow.

 

There's no question tuition has soared but your interpretation is incorrect.

 

I assume since you avoided the question you didn't go to college.

I assume your mom fucked football team, hence your lack of intelligence. That would explain you thinking 1.1 is larger then 3.8.

 

For posterity...

[ivan]

i hate to inject humor into what is clearly a very serious conversation, but john oliver's recent piece on college costs and the resulting massive growth in student debt might give both of the prime combatants in this soiree something to comment on

[video:youtube]

[CWC01]

Student loan debt is ridiculous but it really isn't anyone's fault but the borrower. With that said, tuition has skyrocketed because loans are so easily available. Compounding is the fact that states have zero incentive to contribute since the federal government is underwriting loans for everyone. Why give away money when the students will simply take out a loan?

 

Here is a summary of two studies performed. There are a few shortcomings but they conclude there is a correlation between increases in student loan availability and increases in tuition by for-profit and not-for-profit colleges alike.

https://kelchenoneducation.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/new-evidence-on-the-bennett-hypothesis-and-federal-student-aid/

 

On the surface I think Chris Krispy is right that non-essential services should be limited if it would lower tuition. Unfortunately I don't think colleges would actually lower tuition if they reduced services. The video from John Oliver spends a lot of time criticizing for-profit schools for marketing costs but fails to accurately identify the ways state colleges spend money to market themselves. It's pretty naive to think the rock gyms are just niceties instead of a way to attract students.

 

Why is there so much student loan debt? Because students have time to go to the rock gym. I paid cash for college and I spent my free time working to pay for it. Instead of offering ridiculous loans to young adults that lack the life experience to make sound financial decisions, make them work for it.

 

 

[ivan]

interesting read, though i don't think its helpful to say its the student's entire fault for borrowing in the first place or that students would have way less debt if they worked more while in school - the modern american economy is a grim place for a non-college graduate, so there's huge amounts of pressure for kids to go there even if it means practically selling themselves into slavery in the hopes that it'll all work out in the end if they try their best - working a minimum wage job while wading through marx won't exactly put much of a dent in the debt either

 

that said, of course, students need to value their education and thus need to have skin in the game, provided the work doesn't render them incapable of staying awake in class - and if the price-tag for an affordable education (that will actually translate into a middle-class job) is minimal extra-curriculars being offered, that's not the end of the world (though the renaissance dream of a university that offers enlightenment in matters beyond the purely practical would be sad indeed to see die and not be the kind of world i'd much want to live in )

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I'm embarrassed for you. Wow.

 

There's no question tuition has soared but your interpretation is incorrect.

 

I assume since you avoided the question you didn't go to college.

I assume your mom fucked football team, hence your lack of intelligence. That would explain you thinking 1.1 is larger then 3.8.

 

For posterity...

 

He attended a massage school for gay men somewhere in Mexico. You can see why he's so miserable