Open source alpinism

[tvashtarkatena]

Light and small can be kind of gimmicky, but be able to ski a 6 day traverse with a 40L pack is kind of a cool trick, too.

 

Successful small companies tend to get bigger. Small companies can also make crap as well as larger ones. I tend to focus more on the retailer - small local shops who provide good service should be rewarded with repeat business so they can stick around and continue to raise the bar.

Edited March 11, 2013 by tvashtarkatena

[pcg]

So explain why no one yet makes rock shoes for wide feet...

[elliottwill]

"I haven't yet been able to decipher the original thesis here, but..."

 

No thesis, just questions. We're not saying use hemp rope and bongs, just asking if the industry can progress without relying on a consumerist ideology of "you need this to look good, you need this to be competitive." I don't know what the alternative looks like. I'm just suspicious when I hear that there is no other possibility than the way we happen to be doing things right now.

 

Finley brings up another great point, though; if we're worried about sustainability, and the direct ecological impact of gear sales, etc., pales next to the political impact of a culture more invested in the outdoors, then perhaps Mountain Hardwear at Nordstrom and Patagonia at Urban Outfitters is great because it builds a constituency for conservation. That's a weird thought, and I'm grateful we're having this discussion because I don't think I would have ever considered it otherwise.

 

Maybe proof is in the pudding Patagonia's cooked up with their eBay store for used gear, and new marketing approach of "buy less stuff (but buy it from us)." I'm curious to see whether they'll stick with it.

[elliottwill]

"So explain why no one yet makes rock shoes for wide feet..."

 

 

 

Because we need an economy of scale! Ha ha. My question is just How do we build that market? Do we take the cosmetics industry route: "you suck, you're ugly, buy this?" The cycling industry route: "you suck, that other guy is better, buy this?" The present outdoor industry route: "you won't have any fun and will die if you don't buy this?" Like, what is our new narrative going to be? We focus a lot on technical limits: how modern ice gear opened up a whole new world of climbing, for example. I'm wondering what psychological limits new climbers impose on themselves under the influence of the industry's promotional rhetoric. I'm not talking about pros, experienced people, or people that just don't care and are climbing in bunny boots, but the newcomer or casual users who make up the bulk of the market. I like my carbon poles, my 3 lb tent, my leashless tools. I just don't want a pernicious consumerist ethos to be the necessary evil behind them. Marketing can be good. It can clarify our desires to be better people. So how do we market climbing so successfully that in a few years, you can buy your wide rock shoes?

Edited March 12, 2013 by elliottwill

[Buckaroo]

Maybe proof is in the pudding Patagonia's cooked up with their eBay store for used gear, and new marketing approach of "buy less stuff (but buy it from us)." I'm curious to see whether they'll stick with it.

 

I'm disgusted with Patagonia right now. I bought some polypro base layers from them about 17 years ago and they are still usable, the bottoms have a couple small holes but the tops have none.

 

Recently I bought the same Patagonia items, paid about $50 each for tops and bottoms. They all got holes in them the first or 2nd time out. Can you say planned obsolescence?

 

I returned them to REI and got the house brand, no trouble so far.

 

I think the problems with consumerism lie at least partly with the consumer. You can make a positive impact if you put forth some effort. Watch what you buy, don't immediately jump for the latest fad. Look for durability and long term functionality. Learn how to fix things, patch, sew, glue.

 

Some technical items will become refined over time so that upgrades aren't as frequent. If you can wait past a generation of development you may be better off. Example, going from a bent shaft Black Prophet to a 2nd gen Cobra.

 

Realizing when something is refined enough that the next gen is not worth the purchase is key also. An example is desktop PC's. For years the upgrade cycle was just a couple of years. That's now extended out to more than 5. Another example is Windows. You can and should skip every other release. Like going from XP to Win7 and skipping Vista and Win8.

[tvashtarkatena]

If you're a noob you ask someone who isn't.

 

Same as it ever was.

 

 

[G-spotter]

Patagonia's big marketing push this year is "better fit". Sounds a lot like "we just admitted that we've fit like a garbage bag for years"