Learning the basics -- classes, paid guide, etc?

[SeanO]

Hi guys, I want to learn the basics of rock and alpine climbing. My background: I've been backpacking since I was a kid, I've read a few books on mountaineering, such as Freedom of the Hills, I've done toprope at local walls, I'm a member at a local bouldering gym, and I've done attempts on some peaks like Colchuck and even Rainier (with experienced friends). However, I don't feel like my head knowledge is complete or tested through experience. And there's holes, such as performing crevasse rescue in a real situation, learning how to place rock/snow/ice pro, etc.

 

So, give me your opinion on someone in my shoes. How should I go about learning all the basics? So far I've considered the following options:

 

• Mountaineers BCS, or Boealps/WAC BCS
  
• Hire a guide for a couple days to teach me the basics
  
• Do a guided trip with AAI/RMI/IMG or something like that
  
• Just keep going on trips and get experienced
  

 

I've heard lots of bad things about the Mounties, particularly inconsistency with leaders and rigorous adherence to rules. Boealps and WAC are too much of a back-to-back commitment (every weekend for 3 months). Hiring a guide for a couple days sounds like a great option, but who would I hire and how much would it cost?

 

Any thoughts or anecdotes would be helpful. For example, how did you first get started climbing?

 

Thanks a bunch,

Sean

Edited October 25, 2011 by whitenoise

[occamsrazor32]

I would like to know as well since I am looking through RMI as well!

[genepires]

If money is not an issue, you will get a lot from a hired guide or maybe a 6 day mountaineering course which is a good value for the money. I can only speak from my experience in that both AAI's do a good job of this. I would bet money that mountain madness and IMG do a good job too. Been a while but I "think" it costs around a $1000 for a 6 day trip. Would be real easy to find out via their websites.

 

I think a guided ascent of a mountain is not going to fulfill your needs as much as a instruction trip.

 

It has been a LONG time since my mountaineers BCS but I seem to remember it has a good value for the money. I mean it is cheap and if you put work into it, you will get plenty out of it.

 

Either guided or club based instruction is OK as long as you follow the 4th option and keep getting out. Keep using the skills learned in the "class room" and learn stuff that can not be verbalized like intuition. Keep reading various how to books and learn to rock climb.

[selkirk]

I'm amazed the Mountie bashing hasn't started yet. Self admitted Mountie here so there's my own Bias, and have been through Basic, and Intermediate.

I've known folks in the Boe-alps and they always seemed reasonably competent.

The few WAC things I've come across put me off a bit.

 

All in all I've been pleased with both the Mounties basic course as I took almost 10 years ago, and even more pleased with what it has evolved into more recently. For the cost you get a lot of exposure to climbing over a long period of time, and it's being better tailored so that you can progress at you're own rate. It's also moved to more small group instruction based around Mentor groups (1 or more climb leaders / experienced climbers paired with a small group of students). I personally liked that the Basic / Intermediate courses was moderately paced and stretched out instead of trying to absorb everything all at once. It provided a good mechanism to reinforce the learning through repetition.

 

The face of the club is also changing with progressively more offerings for higher end climbing with courses in big-wall, water ice, advanced alpine (5.9+).

 

One of the advantages I've seen with courses like this is that they also allow you to connect with a group of people at a similar skill level and interest level. Many people start out climbing with the Mountaineers and they drift off to their own adventures once they establish a group of friends to climb with. To be perfectly honest I often climb with other Mountaineers, but almost never as a "Mountaineers" climb anymore.

 

One other thing to keep in mind with regard to the Mounties in specific, is that I've gotten the impression that all bad behavior by any large group gets attributed to the Mounties, whether or not it's justified.

 

Finally the Mounties, Boe-alps, etc. aren't professionals, they're volunteers so there is absolutely variability in the skill level and focus of the instructors, but there has been a very concerted effort to make sure that anyone who graduates from the courses has at least a basic minimum level of understanding, and like anything else, you very much get out of it what you put in.

 

With regard to the RMI or guided trips up Rainier, I don't get the impression that much teaching goes on. More humping uphill as fast as you can go. I've heard great things about Hiring a guide for a weekend but I know when I started it wouldn't have been possible for me due to cost.

 

As for "just keep going on trips" That's a given and should apply to any other learning you want to do.

 

Based on your description I'd say you'd be at the advanced end of the Basic Climbing course (i.e. how not to kill others, belaying/rapelling, winter/snow camping, crampon and iceaxe use, etc.) and might find it a little to slow and you might be ready for the Intermediate course (leading on Rock and Ice, winter conditions and avy danger evaluation). One possibility is to get a Basic equivalency (easier now than it used to be) and jump straight to Intermediate.

 

If you have more questions or want some additional detail just shoot me a pm.

 

Cheers

 

Now, where's my fireproof suit?

 

 

[Tyson.g]

"It has been a LONG time since my mountaineers BCS but I seem to remember it has a good value for the money. I mean it is cheap and if you put work into it, you will get plenty out of it"

 

Same as my experience and I agree.

I would also add that Selkirik is spot on in his post.

 

 

[SeanO]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

 

genepires, I will look into the 6 day trips. It looks like AAI (American Alpine Institute) does a 3 day skills trip on Baker for around $500, but the other guys like RMI, IMG, and the other AAI do similar trips that are more expensive ($1500ish). I'll have to think about it.

 

selkirk, thank you for sharing your experience. It's really helpful to hear your opinion as it does sound fair and also unvarnished. I've read lots of Mountie bashing on the internets which has made me skeptical of the posters, but also understand where they're coming from. I think the BCS is right up my alley, though I do think it'll be a bit repetitive. The way I see it, it's better to know all the rules before you try and break them. Safer and more fun that way. I'll PM you with some more specific questions about the Mounties.

 

If anyone else has an experience or opinion to share, let me hear it!

 

Thanks,

Sean

[LeviK]

Another option is to contact a local AMGA certified guide. There's a lot of them in the area. You can find them through the AMGA website. Spend a couple days picking their brains for exactly what you want to know. Most AMGA guides work for a local company, AAI's, IMG, RMI, etc, but do private instruction as well. Totally worth your time and money.