Chopped bolts

[crimper]

anyway, i guess the only logical thing to do is to call a far side summit meeting. PLEASE P.M. ME IF INTERESTED

 

this probably should have been done 1 or 2 years ago, because it seems like these 2 bolts got more of a "symbolic chop" rather than on their own merits.

 

lots of people on this site have been there and have offered their opinions on the crag. this is a chance for us all to be on our best behavior and try to find some harmony.

 

while i obviously am upset with bill and jim, and have said things here that make them look bad, above all i really in my heart want to be friends with both of them.

 

and if nobody else wants to have the meeting, i guess we'll just keep on muddling forward without really learning anything.

 

again, PLEASE PM me if you are interested in getting together some night to try to right by this crag some of us have grown to, gulp, love.

 

 

[eldiente]

 

 

Edited March 30, 2010 by eldiente

[crimper]

i agree the fuss is a shame.

there is no natural pro to be had by the 2 bolts.

 

i am here to answer questions, so:

 

i can lead P1 of jim's young warriors and skip every bolt, but i would never chop those bolts. same goes for dozens of routes in portland.

 

 

[el jefe]

bryan, what you've said here doesn't make chopper jim and billcoe look bad; what makes them look bad is that they chopped your route without talking to you first, which i say is pretty fucking lame behavior. having the courage of one's convictions would mean talking to you first, not chopping the route behind your back.

[el jefe]

I climb mainly at Index and Leavenworth (both pretty bolt free). It seems we put up bolt stations where there are no alternatives or where you need to rap and don't want to leave gear. My 2 cents.

 

i just can't let this bullshit post go by unchallenged. summitchaser, you need really need to get around more. there are shitloads of bolts at both index and leavenworth.

[markd]

wow, this is amazing. will someone please explain calmly to me why the two bolts were chopped on this 60ft route? i know other bolts have been placed at the drop zone as lead bolts by others.

 

jim o showed ozone to kevbone and i a long time ago and told us to have at it, so we did. he was there for the whole thing and never had a problem with anything happening there. next comes the dropzone and kevin rauch, jon stewart and myself starting going there when there was maybe one total route, and NO interest from the elders what so ever. we ( jon, rauch and myself ) didn't want this new place over bolted at all and would consciously look to put up routes that utilized natural gear. this ethic stuck with us 'original' developers. 2 bolts in 60ft hardly is over bolted, so again my question is, why?

 

lastly, jim o's most famous route at beacon has numerous pitches that many of us skip bolts on as they are clearly not needed. i assume beacon is 100% more trad than the drop zone and none of us have ever even CONSIDERED chopping them; again, we climb it and skip them almost every time.

 

jim o, was my first ascent mentor and was there when i climbed my first FA at beacon and was cheering me on from the tracks. my second FA ever, also at beacon, he brought me to and told me this should be the next one and same for my third at beacon. my point is, jim has always been the man to me, a friend and also a mentor, so i'm slightly confused by this action.

 

maybe we could all talk about this without the threatening tones i've been reading in both private emails and on here.

[LostCamKenny]

mark, i have yer purple metolius that was stuck in the wall at farside - its rusted and unserviceable, but if you'd like it back i'd be happy to give it to you...

Edited March 29, 2010 by LostCamKenny

[Checat]

 

Love the recent aid revival to a point, but when it starts restoring unnecessary angles in rock that takes pro just fine or putting up practice aid ladders then someone is either over-enthusiastic, inappropriately nostalgic, or otherwise slipped a gear.

 

 

Amen JosephH (in aid perspective which is hardly what this thread is about), not just for this particular area but others throughout the state. Aid is great, but evaluate the most modern clean practices before pinning!

[denalidave]

"Your an errand boy, sent by a grocery store clerk to collect a bill"...

donnie, you're out of your element..

Yeah, your right but I have to agree with Kev on this one... Based on the limited information posted here, it sure looks like a chop first, ask questions later. Knowing Jim, somewhat well, I can see how he may seem in agreement when talking to him, only to find out later he really feels much different when talking about the issue when the bolter is not present. Based on what Crimper says, he went ahead thinking he had the elders approval. Yeah, I don't know all the details but it sure appears to be a rock police chop. I like the idea of an all trad area, just seems there could have been some dialogue amongst all the users to establish "the rules" for route development. Maybe that happened? I'm way out of my element but I can see the hypocrisy Kevin refers too. I hope all parties can get together and work it out, rather than turn it into yet another bolt war that nobody ever seems to win. That's all I got to say bout that...

[LostCamKenny]

"Your an errand boy, sent by a grocery store clerk to collect a bill"...

donnie, you're out of your element..

Yeah, your right but I have to agree with Kev on this one... Based on the limited information posted here, it sure looks like a chop first, ask questions later. Knowing Jim, somewhat well, I can see how he may seem in agreement when talking to him, only to find out later he really feels much different when talking about the issue when the bolter is not present. Based on what Crimper says, he went ahead thinking he had the elders approval. Yeah, I don't know all the details but it sure appears to be a rock police chop. I like the idea of an all trad area, just seems there could have been some dialogue amongst all the users to establish "the rules" for route development. Maybe that happened? I'm way out of my element but I can see the hypocrisy Kevin refers too. I hope all parties can get together and work it out, rather than turn it into yet another bolt war that nobody ever seems to win. That's all I got to say bout that...

can i still borrow minus 148?

[Stewart]

so what do i do now?

 

 

 

Move on to your next project!

 

Rap bolting vs. Rap-trad vs. Ground up!

I've watched this Rap-trad movement going on at the Drop and it's created some really fun lines. I first put up the "Martr" in Rap-trad form, then I did "the close-out" ground up, soon I put up a rap bolted route called "2TRAD4U". What I was doing was "practice". Every route after that I put in "ground up" after inspiration from JosephH. What I discovered was....

 

Ground-up is the most pure style! I have put in several bolts into the rock and into my leg attempting this style.

 

Some have questioned my bolts(see pictures above). My answer is "ground-up" bitches! or in french, "Je mapel Jon Phillip"! Do I think that those bolts should be removed? Maybe, but I'll remove them! After having my gear in that crack for months and months I just decided to put the anchoor in so I could get down with my gear. I guess I was lazy. I just have problems rapping in, seems like cheating.

 

Bryan,onward or ground up and slam in angles into your predrilled holes! Then you can say, "ground-up trad bitches"!

 

Stewart

[crimper]

finally, some laughs. ground-up solo aid-climbing really is the best way to break your leg. better than breaking your leg on a sport climb, eh?

 

[Stewart]

finally, some laughs. ground-up solo aid-climbing really is the best way to break your leg. better than breaking your leg on a sport climb, eh?

 

 

If you snap your leg in two on a sport route, you just tell people you fell in the shower!

 

Stewart

[LostCamKenny]

d "2TRAD4U".

without a doubt one of the most fun and exciting climbs there! despite the bolts that protect it(there isn't anything else until you get to the pin - which appears to have moved from the first time i saw it, btw) it is not a "sport" climb.

 

Ground-up is the most pure style! I have put in several bolts into the rock and into my leg attempting this style.

absolutely!

 

Some have questioned my bolts(see pictures above). My answer is "ground-up" bitches! or in french, "Je mapel Jon Phillip"! Do I think that those bolts should be removed? Maybe, but I'll remove them! After having my gear in that crack for months and months I just decided to put the anchoor in so I could get down with my gear. I guess I was lazy. I just have problems rapping in, seems like cheating.

i definitely question them since there is a great gear anchor just to the left. lazy - meh, perhaps, if you want to call yerself that, but i understand not wantign to leave gear... i'm in the lazy camp meself! but you could top out from where yer bolts are, fer sure! i totally think you should take them out. and i should also clarify that i think it isn't a bolt or a hanger that is ugly - its those damn chains! argggggg....

[LostCamKenny]

finally, some laughs. ground-up solo aid-climbing really is the best way to break your leg.

or yer back

[dberdinka]

Sound like a real f$&king control freak you lads got down there. The politics of Columbia Gorge climbing never cease to amaze.

[denalidave]

can i still borrow minus 148?

 

 

 

Um, if I can find it... It appears I may have "lent" it out already. I have no idea who I may have lent it too and I can't find it in our library with all my other climbing books. Got a bunch of others you may want. Come on over next time you are out this way and take what you want. Just get em back to me. Hopefully, I will find -148 too...

[LostCamKenny]

Sound like a real f$&king control freak you lads got down there. The politics of Columbia Gorge climbing never cease to amaze.

as the gorge turns

[LostCamKenny]

Come on over next time you are out this way and take what you want. Just get em back to me. Hopefully, I will find -148 too...

i start work again on friday so i'll see you then! woohooo!

[denalidave]

Sound like a real f$&king control freak you lads got down there. The politics of Columbia Gorge climbing never cease to amaze.

It's caused by eating to many radio active fish from the Columbia River...

[LostCamKenny]

Sound like a real f$&king control freak you lads got down there. The politics of Columbia Gorge climbing never cease to amaze.

It's caused by eating to many radio active fish from the Columbia River...

dude, don't you take the girls fishing out there?

[kevbone]

Edited April 6, 2010 by kevbone

[LostCamKenny]

I would just like to have some realy clarity on one particular issue.

 

JIM DID NOT SHOW MARK, KEVIN R, STEWART, BRYAN, ARENT, OR MYSELF the drop zone. Therefore it is not his rock.

i don't think anyone is debating that, dude. mistake or not, there needs to be better communication since it appears there are many an interested party. that's an idea - lets have a party!!! kev, put the kids to bed early and lets get trashed and forget all this nonsense!

[kevbone]

Edited April 6, 2010 by kevbone

[LostCamKenny]

i don't think anyone is debating that, dude.

 

Yes they are. Behind the scenes.

i read the thread to jim and he didn't debate the fact to me... i think he would have chimed in right away if he had disagreed - especially with me telling him this!