Mount Shuksan

[EricMPeterson]

My brother and I are planning a trip up Mount Shuksan in early Sept. We have limited climbing experience so I was wondering if this climb is to much. I have climbed Mt. Stuart via the Cascadian couloir. It was exposed but the climbing was not hard for me. Is Mt. Shuksan similar or harder. If any one could give me some info besides saying its a class 3 I would appreciate it. Maybe some equipment recommendations.

Thanks in Advance

Eric

 

[jordansahls]

Shuksan is glaciated on all sides, so any route you do is going to be harder than the Cascadian on Stuart. The scramble up the summit pyramid on Shuksan is class 3 by the easiest route, If I recall the cascadian couloir, there isn't anything above class 2.

 

So its hard to compare. If you have basic glacier travel/rescue skills, then you shouldn't have a problem, but without that, you should look at climbing something more in your skill range, and move up from there.

[Tucker]

I am also planning on climbing Shuksan with a couple of friends the weekend of Sept 5/6th. I have been preparing by taking a couple of rock courses including a lead climbing course. My personal expectations given some research and talking to quite a few guides is that most routes are in the class 3/4 range and your standard basic rack up to 4" is more than sufficient with that most likely being overkill. I believe most of it is doable without belaying but for safety sake belaying and rappeling back down is best.

 

I'm not sure what kind of experience you have aside from Mt. Stuart, do you have any rock climbing experience such as belaying a lead climber, rappeling, etc...?

 

If you guys are looking for someone to go with you that has a little bit of rock climbing/leading experience I would be more than happy to join you and your brother a weekend in late July.

 

Tom

[Toast]

Both of you guys should read the second post. Nuf said.

[Tucker]

Hey Toast

 

That is great, but it doesn't really answer the questions. What kind of gear is needed, are there permanent rap stations (if so how far apart), are the routes easily identified, are the routes bolted, etc...? For those of us who haven't been up there general info is ok but specifics would provide more useful info for us. I haven't been able to get super specifics out of any guides aside from a rack up to 4" and know how to belay and rap.

 

If you have been up it would you mind sharing some of the beta with us newbies so we aren't guessing and carrying a ton of gear of there for no reason.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

[mkporwit]

What Toast is saying is that you're focusing too much on the rock pitch (which might be bypassed by doing a class 3 on the summit) and not thinking about glacier conditions, which could be suboptimal in September -- bare and heavily crevassed -- and in any case would require some skills not typically covered in a rock climbing course.

 

And no, the summit is not bolted.

[rocky_joe]

Hey Toast

 

That is great, but it doesn't really answer the questions. What kind of gear is needed, are there permanent rap stations (if so how far apart), are the routes easily identified, are the routes bolted, etc...? For those of us who haven't been up there general info is ok but specifics would provide more useful info for us. I haven't been able to get super specifics out of any guides aside from a rack up to 4" and know how to belay and rap.

 

If you have been up it would you mind sharing some of the beta with us newbies so we aren't guessing and carrying a ton of gear of there for no reason.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

If you have to ask if a MOUNTAIN is bolted you need to consider what you're getting into. Also, if you need beta more specific than gear to 4", class 3/4 and "go up." you really need to second guess your skill level.

 

The beta you have been given should be more than sufficient to get you up the hill. I haven't been on the hill, but from the photos/topos I have seen it is pretty straight forward. Anything more specific would be running beta (and thank god we're not sport rats.)

 

here's a good reference to help sort out what we mean by class 2, 3, 4, 5...

* Class 1 is walking with a low chance of injury and a fall unlikely to be fatal.

* Classes 2 and 3 are steeper scrambling with increased exposure and a greater chance of severe injury, but falls are not always fatal.

* Class 4 can involve short steep sections where the use of a rope is recommended, and un-roped falls could be fatal.

* Class 5 is considered true rock climbing, predominantly on vertical or near vertical rock, and requires skill and a rope to proceed safely. Un-roped falls would result in severe injury or death.

 

Edited June 2, 2009 by rocky_joe

[Tucker]

Great, thanks for the additional info.

[Tucker]

Thanks for the additional info, the class ratings are definitely helpful.

 

I'm assuming any portion of a Mountain could be bolted if there is a section that involves rock climbing such as this. Although in this case, given the descriptions you provided, it would be unlikely that there would be bolts. Is that an unreasonable thought, is there any Mountain climb that has rock climbing sections that are bolted or is that simply never done and reserved for pure rock climbs only?

[t_rutl]

they bolted Everest this season and i find that sad...

 

any portion of a mountain "could" be bolted but imo takes away from an alpine experience...it's not unreasonable to think there could be some, but it would be a rare case ya do so never bank on it unless it's established beta...even if there are some reported prepare for them to be unusable and have plan B...miles from camp and at the crux of a climb who wants to find a busted anchor and have nothing to use as an alternate???

 

Shuksan has plenty of spots to throw a rap sling around...was up Memorial day and some are still left...but as was stated make sure your team has whatcha need to get to the rock...keeping the horse before the cart so to speak...but Shuksan is a beautiful peak and i'm sure you'll enjoy it regardless!!

 

-T

 

 

[ropegoat]

What Toast is saying is that you're focusing too much on the rock pitch (which might be bypassed by doing a class 3 on the summit) and not thinking about glacier conditions, which could be suboptimal in September -- bare and heavily crevassed -- and in any case would require some skills not typically covered in a rock climbing course.

 

And no, the summit is not bolted.

 

This point should be strongly emphasized. I can appreciate you leveraging this forum for beta, however, it seems you have little glacier experience. I also climbed the Sulphide Glacier route over Memorial day, the vast majority of the route will require you to mitigate glacial hazards- not vertical rock climbing terrain. While I could see any technical rock being the foremost concern, I would encourage you to try to take a basic glacier skills class this summer, something that includes cravasse rescue scenarios. You are planning a trip very late in the season, and I agree entirely with mkporwit that the glacier will be bare, heavily cravassed, and a relatively dangerous place to travel if you don't have a lot of glacier experience. Travel on bare glacier is especially hazardous because arresting a fall is much more difficult, and knowing when/where to use a rope safely and properly takes some careful thought- preferrably based on experience.

[Tucker]

Great info and feedback all, thanks for the replies. I didn't hear they bolted Everest, that is crazy considering how many people get up and down it safely (relatively speaking) already.

[Toast]

The prominent gulley up the summit pyramid will be melted out and a choss pile of loose and near falling rock. It’s best to avoid that if you can. If you like rock climbing, there is a really fun low 5th class route up the east ridge you can simul. You’ll only need a minimal rack – a set of nuts, a few cams to 2” and a lot of slings. If it’s not crowded, you can down lead and retreat the way you came. If you descend the gully, be sure to bring tied webbing to set up rap anchors.

 

That said, late season is not a good time to dabble on glaciers for the first time. There’s a reason rock climbing and alpine mountaineering are on two different ends of the actuary schedule. If you insist on pressing on, read up on glacier travel and take a class on crevasse rescue.

 

[rocky_joe]

Thanks for the additional info, the class ratings are definitely helpful.

 

I'm assuming any portion of a Mountain could be bolted if there is a section that involves rock climbing such as this. Although in this case, given the descriptions you provided, it would be unlikely that there would be bolts. Is that an unreasonable thought, is there any Mountain climb that has rock climbing sections that are bolted or is that simply never done and reserved for pure rock climbs only?

 

Mountains do not get bolted (exception MAY BE sketchy belays or rap anchors). If you want bolts, go to Smith. Bolts are for featureless face climbs, not beautiful crack systems. Can you imagine a sunset in the Enchantments with the sun's last rays glistening off all the bolted lines on Dragontail? Sounds gorgeous huh? *reeks of sarcasm*

 

To add another voice to the glacier saftey choir...learn crevasse rescue ie. 2:1 & 3:1 pulley systems, snow anchors, prusik belays and how to travel in rope teams over heavily crevassed glaciers. Again, this will most likely be the crux of the climb...you shouldn't have any problem on the class 3 stuff.

 

Also, let's see a link about the Everest bolting...

[jordansahls]

let's see a link about the Everest bolting...

 

here:

 

http://climbingnarc.com/2009/05/pictures-of-the-bolting-on-everest

[t_rutl]

Also, let's see a link about the Everest bolting...

 

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=47261

 

there are a few links out there...it was through the yellow band for fixed lines

[EricMPeterson]

Thanks for the replies! This seemed to stir up some emotion. I have seen photos and tried to do some research on the trail. I just don't want to get summit fever then be the idiot who needs a rescue. I have rock climbed and belayed before but I have never lead climbed. I simple wanted to know what the class 3 is like ie (rope or no rope required.) I am not looking to get in over my head but everyone I ask has some what of an ego and they say ah walk up. Well maybe to someone who is very experienced. I have some time before the trip so I will try learn. If i dont then I wont go! As for what Tom had written, I to was wondering what its like, bolt or no bolts available. The glacier travel is something that I will work on and be prepared for. I don't like refering to books that are misleading. I prefer to ask you guys the experienced ones who do it. If your bothered by my ignorance or eagerness then I am sorry in advance.

Eric

[jordansahls]

Hey, as climbers we all understand what its like to get stoked on a climb, but judging by your posts, your not ready for Shuksan. Shuksan is a "walk" up by the Sulfide route, but its a glaciated walk up. Also, lots of people consider the cow routes on Rainier to be walk ups. And like you said, climbers tend to have egos, so we down play things sometimes forgetting that our defenition of "walk up" is much different than a newbs defenition.

 

Also, its hard to describe what a class 3 scramble is like. Many people dont think about ropeing up on that sort of thing, while others wouldn't be caught dead without one. Basically, the nomenclature used by climbers to grade routes is ambigious, especially in the lower ranges. There is a reason that you wont see many routes with a grade of 5.0 or 5.2, because the lines of class 4 and low grade 5 are blurred.

 

You need to get out on some scrambles and get a feel for what its like before you do something like shuksan. Why not try Black Peak off of HW 20, or Del Campo peak off of the mountain loop HW? There are many climbs that you can do that will be challenging, and a bit more suited for your present skill level.

 

Still, when I was starting out, I did some climbs that were out of my skill range. I survived, and learned a lot, but I was lucky. Most climbers have similar expiriences during their careers. If you want to do it, and you are set on it, then go ahead, but remember that you are responsible for your actions. Most likely, you will have no problem, but you will start to attribute your success to skill instead of luck and fortune, and that sort of climbing has a way of catching up with people real fast. So please, start out with something more suitible, then work up to a climb like Shuksan.

[EricMPeterson]

Thank you for the post. I do hope to climb some other peaks before Shuksan. I live in spokane so its not easy to get over there and do simular climbs. I really would like to take some climbing classes from RMI or other related companies. This is the very reason that I am asking people. I was told its just a long hike with a scramble at the top. I am doing my research before I become someone youll be saving. I will get there just wanted to know from a climbers perspective. Thank you all see you one the trail.

Eric

 

[fredrogers]

I have climbed Shuksan many times (mostly by the Sulphide) and agree with the previous posts that the glacier will be quite dry/icy by September- on a normal year. We had a low snow year in the N Cascades this winter and my guesstimate is that it will be "worse" than normal earlier than normal this year. I have done the East Ridge and central gully route and think that the east ridge is a better way to go (the gully can be between 3rd and 5th class depending on which way you go) . Either way will feature loose rock and somewhat fiddly and occasionally run out protection. *Usually* you can rap from fixed stations down the gully- I have done it with a 30M glacier rope and found that adequate but you need to be prepared to supplement or create your own rap stations (don't trust what you find).

 

All I have to go on is the posts in this thread, but it sounds like you might consider some glacier travel training before attempting this route. There are many companies that offer this in Washington (AAI, Mountain Madness, North Cascades Mountain Guides, etc).

 

In the interest of full disclosure I work for North Cascades Mountain Guides and am familiar with both the guides and their ability to teach good skills for the do-it-yourselfer. Hopefully I am not making a crassly commercial post when I recommend the NCMG 3 day glacier travel training course from them. Hopefully other folks on this board can chime in with their experience with other companies so you can decide for your self if this is appropriate and which company may best suit your needs.

 

Have fun!

 

 

 

[rocky_joe]

thanks for the links...interesting...perhaps depressing.

[Bug]

Climbing can be dangerous.

But that can be an attitude problem.

Read 'Freedom of the Hills' or some other description of glacier travel. Get the gear and practive the techniques.

Set up a z-pulley in your back yard.

Set pickets on a snowfield.

Walk up a snow field with your crampons.

Practice self arresting (take your crampons off so you don't snap your ankles above the boot).

Then go try an easy climb. Don't be emotionally attached to the summit. If it feels like you are in over your head, you probably are. Turn around.

Enjoy.

[t_rutl]

I really would like to take some climbing classes from RMI or other related companies. This is the very reason that I am asking people.

 

RMI, American Alpine Institute, Alpine Ascents, Mountain Madness...they all have some great courses and you will NOT regret taking one...I did AAI's (American Alpine Institute) 3 Day Glacier Skills/Crevasse course as the first thing when I started out and was prob the best thing I did...if the foundation aint built right the rest will be shakey...

 

but yes...we'll see you on the trail!!

[ropegoat]

those of you who know me, know I gotta plug here:

 

If you are really considering getting into it- you might also consider a course with NOLS- www.nols.edu. They offer longer courses that focus on excellent technical instruction, and put you in the field for longer periods of time so you can really get some experience+technical training. I did a semester in Alaska that include 24 days of mountaineering in the east Alaska Range.