Calf training suggestions for rock/ice

[Courtenay]

Here's another break-in from the ice climbing thread: what's your favorite flat-land/non-ice way to train calves for ice climbing?

I suggest sticking to standing calf raises of some sort (Universal, leg press machine, dumbbells, barbell, back pack or even the Smith machine) rather than seated calf raises or ballistic jumps (as in boxer's shuffle or jumping rope). Point being: try to keep legs straight so you can work the gastrocnemius, rather than the soleus (primarily worked with knees bent as in seated raises.) Dry tooling is also an option for some rock areas if ice conditions aren't what you expect.

To train for muscular endurance in the calves, try this: start with 2-3 sets of 15 on your favorite 1-2 calf-strengthening exercises above and over time, build to 5 sets of 30 (2-leg, bodyweight to start, up to pack weight as you progress) and your calves won't have any trouble once you get out on the rock/ice. Emphasize the pause at the bottom for a full second (stretched position) and be sure to stretch well afterwards. Good luck!

[AJ]

Again, back to Chris Wall's recent article in Rock & Ice (#113). He seems to be an advocate of doing very heavy low repetitions (with good form) to build strength without building mass. It would seem that calf strength is as much of an endurance problem for ice climbing as it is power, but is there any credence to what he says as it might apply to calves?

[Dru]

I used to just stand at the bus stop for 20 minutes at a time reading a book and doing toe-stand reps. Climbing on vertical and under-vertical walls with tiny jib footholds also worked well.

Or you can put a full beer on a shelf you have to stand on tiptoes to reach. Reach. Take a sip. put back on shelf. wait 1 minute. repeat.

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Dru ]

[David_Parker]

I'd just like to say I really appreciate Courtenay's posts. She obviously knows what she is talking about and fortunately doesn't get too much spray on this thread. I wonder if she reads the rest of our posts and wonders who we really are! Courtenay, we really aren't as bad as we appear sometimes on the web as evidenced at the Pub Club at the Owl And Thistle last Tuesday. There were no fights except over who was buying the next pitcher. But here's my question....Do you have much of a problem with our 12 oz. curls? I mean there are good carbos in aren't there? Also, I think you should join us sometime at pub club. It would be good to round table this stuff!

[EddieE]

Oh, I know that Courteney girl. You guys are lucky you aren't pitching her any grief...she could drop kick any one of us about twenty yards. She might be more peeved that we aren't hoisting 16 oz. curls instead

[Courtenay]

Hi David,

You wrote: << I'd just like to say I really appreciate Courtenay's posts. She obviously knows what she is talking about and fortunately doesn't get too much spray on this thread. I wonder if she reads the rest of our posts and wonders who we really are! But here's my question....Do you have much of a problem with our 12 oz. curls? >>

Thanks, David. For spray, you should have seen what happened over on the pullups/lat pull thread. I read everything that comes through Fitness, just don't always have time to respond right away. No prob with 12 oz. curls except to say they should probably be 20x heavier!!! After all, you guys are all climbers, right??

[Courtenay]

AJ wrote:

<< back to Chris Wall's recent article in Rock & Ice (#113). He seems to be an advocate of doing very heavy low repetitions (with good form) to build strength without building mass. It would seem that calf strength is as much of an endurance problem for ice climbing as it is power, but is there any credence to what he says as it might apply to calves? >>

Chris is trying to get people to realize that to improve endurance you don't ALWAYS want to just :train endurance: -- sometimes it is prudent to train in the strength range of reps as well. If you forever train in the 12-20 reps range, there's only a certain weight you can handle. By training in the 4-8 rep range, your body (particularly nervous system, which takes longer to adapt than the muscular system) gets used to the heavier weight so that eventually you will be able to handle that new weight for more repetitions -- moving strength AND endurance to the next level. Hope that helps.

As to calves, since MOST climbers want endurance in calves (whether for uphill climbing, vertical rock, or ice climbing) the bulk of your training will be high repetitions and body weight plus perhaps pack; by throwing in the occasional 1-2 weeks of high weight/low rep training, you'll move the whole threshold up. Good luck.

[Peter_Puget]

Is there an upper range of weight you'd recomend?

Do standing raises have much risk of back injury?

[Courtenay]

Peter asked:

<<Is there an upper range of weight you'd recommend? Do standing raises have much risk of back injury? >>

Depends on the individual, the exercise, and personal history of strength training -- someone weighing 105 pounds and female, fairly new to lifting will have a very different upper level from some guy who's 180 pounds who has been climbing for years and who also lifts regularly. I'd say take a look at the weight you use on your climbs; you'd want to have good endurance with your body weight plus that weight. For "over-weight" training (meaning heavier than you'd carry, to get you into the 4-8 reps range) it will be quite substantial.

If you're concerned about injury to spine (low risk with something like this) try belted calf raises with a Nautilus machine or weight belt you can strap around your mid section rather than loading a bar high on your neck and shoulders. Hope this helps.

[epb]

In climbing (rock, ice, or alpine) your legs are more in a battle with muscle endurance than brute stregth it seems. I find running hills, stairs or the stadium in general to work best for me in terms of anerobic leg training. However, I spend most of my time doing long distances to build up my enduracnce (muscle and cardio).

Pushups, Pull ups, Chin ups, Sit ups, Dips + Running (with anerobic hill traning) will get you in better shape than any weight training program in my opinion...but then again that is just my opinion.

[epb]

BTW...4-8 reps is all good if you want to be an ox. You'll be able to carry a 100 pound pack but your going to lack endurance and muscle stength in proportion to your body weight. When I was lifting hard I could bench 315 and was still lean, however I couldn't do more than 3 pullups and could barely handle a 30 minute run at a 9 min pass. I put on tons of muscle mass and anerobic strength but I considered myself out of shape. Now I'm weighing in at 170lbs and I'm 6'1"...by laying off the weights and working out with my body weight so to speak (push ups, pull ups, dips and situps) and running I am now in better shape for climbing than ever. Be careful with the weight training regimines out there, most personal trainers and programs your mates may be on are probally not best suited for a climbers interest. They will mostly focus on aesthetics.

Getting fit is not as much as a science as it seems to be. I was a personal trainer for 3 years (before I quit to be a rock instrutor ), and out of all the programs I went through for years I now found the basics to work wonders. Oh yeah...eating healthy is key, but no need to skimp on the beer. I don't

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: epb ]

[Courtenay]

<<Pushups, Pull ups, Chin ups, Sit ups, Dips + Running (with anerobic hill traning) will get you in better shape than any weight training program in my opinion>>

But, that IS a "weight training program" -- using your own body weight along with the occasional weighted chins and pullups, weight on your back for pushups, back pack for squats and dips, pack for hill work--just not the "typical" press-a-weight program as gym-heads would think of it. Anything against resistance will add strength.

[Courtenay]

<<4-8 reps is all good if you want to be an ox. You'll be able to carry a 100 pound pack but your going to lack endurance and muscle strength in proportion to your body weight>>

Again, this is A PHASE of a well-rounded periodized program, not the main one by any means for climbers, but it can be a very important one for some people to reach their goals. You as a trainer will be able to recognize that!! How ELSE would someone be able to train into endurance chins and pullups without at some point doing 4-8 reps, no??

[epb]

I was refering to weight training as working with proper weights. Your right my "program" is in fact a "weight training program," it just doesn't use any weights (weights as is the big black steel things at the gym).

>>How ELSE would someone be able to train into endurance chins and pullups without at some point doing 4-8 reps<<

If one can only do 4 reps for chins or pullups that is what they should do, until they are able to do high rep sets (however if using weights...lower the weight used) . Therefore in this manner yes it is a necessary phase that one will probally go through, and ok in my book. However I was refering to the addition of weight or heavy weight training to lower the reps for strength training.

BTW I never weight any chins or use a pack on hills.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: epb ]