guns in national parks, yay!

[Eli3]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/13/guns.park/index.html

 

I can't wait until people are carrying, i mean, you just can't get away from those drug dealers at paradise... Contact the department of interior to protest!

 

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=090000648053d497

 

On second thought, i'm not sure what to do if you run into any wierdos or deviants in the north cascades besides shooting them - i mean, what would you do if you happend up on this?

 

_t6SG1yCW7Y

Edited June 13, 2008 by Eli3

[Hugh Conway]

sweet - Fairweather can pop a cap in my ass on the Summit!

[STP]

Why are you getting your panties in a bunch?

[canyondweller]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/13/guns.park/index.html

 

I can't wait until people are carrying, i mean, you just can't get away from those drug dealers at paradise... Contact the department of interior to protest!

 

To be fair, the change only extends to individuals holding a CCW permit in their given state. Why do you care, anyway? If you don't carry, then don't. Although, with Washington being an "open carry" state, I wonder if that is affected.

 

The whole additional poaching thing is BS; poachers bent on breaking the law aren't going to comply with the law anyway. Not to mention that these guys don't poach with handguns. Additionally, the "increased violence" complaint is a canard.

[Eli3]

well, i saw an incident in the Adirondacks four or five years ago where a bear came into a camp site. A jackass had food in his tent, and there are friendly bears there... So, when the bear was rummaging around the campsite, this guy pulled out his 45 and started shooting in the direction of the bear in a crowded campsite. Fun, eh?

[Fairweather]

Thanks for the link! I just used it to express my support for this rules change.

 

[builder206]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/13/guns.park/index.html

 

I can't wait until people are carrying, i mean, you just can't get away from those drug dealers at paradise... Contact the department of interior to protest!

 

To be fair, the change only extends to individuals holding a CCW permit in their given state. Why do you care, anyway? If you don't carry, then don't. Although, with Washington being an "open carry" state, I wonder if that is affected.

 

The whole additional poaching thing is BS; poachers bent on breaking the law aren't going to comply with the law anyway. Not to mention that these guys don't poach with handguns. Additionally, the "increased violence" complaint is a canard.

 

1. A state carry permit has no bearing or force on federal land. A person without a Washington carry permit can carry a gun in a Washington National Park if this chnage is enacted.

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this provision is very strict.

[builder206]

well, i saw an incident in the Adirondacks four or five years ago where a bear came into a camp site. A jackass had food in his tent, and there are friendly bears there... So, when the bear was rummaging around the campsite, this guy pulled out his 45 and started shooting in the direction of the bear in a crowded campsite. Fun, eh?

 

Do you think behavior like that would be permissible in a National Park if this change is enacted?

[Hugh Conway]

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this

provision is very strict.

 

yeah, WA lets people with mental and drug problems get CCW permits so they can shoot people at festivals

[builder206]

There is no argument from pro-gun groups that the mental health provisions of firearms purchase laws are much too lax and very much need to be tightened up a lot.

 

Before you even get to the question of CCW, people with a background like that guy at Bumbershoot should not be allowed to get a firearm in the first place.

Edited June 13, 2008 by builder206

[Hugh Conway]

There is no argument from pro-gun groups that the mental health provisions of firearms purchase laws are much too lax and very much need to be tightened up a lot.

 

So why aren't they tightened up then?

[STP]

"While it's legal to openly carry a firearm in Washington, state regulations say that exhibiting any weapon "apparently capable of producing bodily harm" in an intimidating manner is a gross misdemeanor. In addition, weapons are prohibited in many places, such as courthouses, liquor establishments that are off-limits to minors, and jails. There are a variety of restrictions. For example, you aren't allowed to carry a loaded handgun in a car unless you have a concealed pistol license."

 

--source: Packing in public: Owners not gun-shy

 

Also check this: http://opencarry.org/

[Fairweather]

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this provision is very strict.

 

Um...not exactly true...

 

"Washington

 

Washington is one of the original "shall issue" states, in which a concealed pistol permit must be issued to any applicant, age 21 or older, who meets certain requirements, including no felony convictions, no misdemeanor domestic violence convictions, and no outstanding warrants.[93][94] Furthermore, a concealed pistol license is not required to carry a concealed pistol if the person carrying the firearm is in route to, in route from, or actively participating in a "legitimate outdoor activity".[95] Open carrying of firearms is not prohibited by law although trouble with some law enforcement agencies has been encountered while open carrying in the past, most notably in a case in Ellensburg, Washington.[96]

 

Currently, there is a growing movement towards open carry in Washington. In Washington, there was a tremendous amount of disinformation among law enforcement officers, gun store employees, and firearms instructors about RCW 9.41.270.

 

In December 2005, activists Lonnie Wilson and Jim March went to the state archives in Olympia to research the origins of the law. March, with his experience in researching gun control laws created out of racial discrimination and strife in California, surmised during a conversation between himself and Wilson that due to year it was passed, it was likely due to "Panther paranoia". March was proven correct.

 

The law, passed in 1969, was passed in response to incidents involving the Seattle Chapter of Black Panther Party at Rainier Beach High School and the Protest of the Mulford Act by the main organization in the California Assembly.

 

Due to the fact that Washington State Constitution has an individual right to keep and bear arms provision (Article 1, Section 24), the Washington Legislature revised the bill that was debated to remove the "within 500 feet of a public place" provisions and left the current statute as is. There were points of debate about whether this could be interpreted as an open carry ban, to which the sponsors of the bill replied that it was a ban against the type of intimidation that the Black Panther Party engaged in at Rainier Beach and the California Assembly, not an open carry ban.

 

Many law enforcement, a generation removed from the events and discussions of the Legislature when the law was created, and without much guidance interpreted the law passed as an open carry ban that is situational to someone making a 911 phone call. This interpretation spread to gun store employees and firearms instructors, who have a lot of personal interaction with law enforcement.

 

Using the information from the state archives, Wilson pursued the issuance of guidance and memorandums to individual officers by police administrators. After one of these bulletins was issued by one department, Wilson acquired the bulletin by a public records request, used the training bulletin as a template and approached most police departments throughout the state. To this day, over a dozen major departments, including the King County Sheriff's Department and the Seattle Police Department, have issued advisories and roll call training to their officers that peaceable open carry of a handgun in a holster is legal.

 

As a general rule, a person may legally open carry in Washington State in any place it is legal to possess a loaded handgun. To open carry in a vehicle (i.e., car, bus, etc...) a person must have a valid concealed pistol license. Some police agencies can be unfriendly towards open carry, so it is important that before a person exercises their right to bear arms in this fashion they acquaint themselves with relevant laws.

 

Prohibited areas for firearms are contained in RCW 9.41.300, RCW 9.41.280, and RCW 70.108.150.

 

Per RCW 9.41.290 (state preemption of firearm laws), divisions of local government (city, county, town, or other municipality) cannot regulate firearms more restrictively than the state does. Exceptions to state preemption — that is, areas in which local governments are allowed to regulate firearms — are contained in RCW 9.41.300. These exceptions include:

 

* "Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others."

* "Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, except that such restrictions shall not apply to [concealed pistol license holders, law enforcement officers, or any] showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms."

* "Restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold."

 

Several localities (including transit agencies) who had wrongfully enforced preempted local ordinances and rules have been challenged by activists in the open carry movement (who are most directly affected by the enforcement of such ordinances) and have since backed down from enforcement and directed their police departments to no longer enforce the ordinances and rules.

 

Washington allows ownership of a firearm silencer, but using one is prohibited by RCW 9.41.250(3) which makes it a gross misdemeanor to "Use any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm."

 

Washington is a "Stand Your Ground" state, in which there is no duty to retreat in the face of what would be perceived by an ordinary person to be a threat to themselves or others by another person that is likely to cause serious injury or death.

 

It is a Class C felony for a non-citizen to possess a firearm in Washington without an Alien Firearm License. Washington is not currently issuing Alien Firearm Licenses. [97]

 

It is a gross misdemeanor to aim a firearm "whether loaded or not, at or towards any human being". [98]

 

Washington State accepts the concealed weapons permits from the following states: Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Utah.[99]

[Fairweather]

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this

provision is very strict.

 

yeah, WA lets people with mental and drug problems get CCW permits so they can shoot people at festivals

 

What a simpleton.

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this

provision is very strict.

 

yeah, WA lets people with mental and drug problems get CCW permits so they can shoot people at festivals

 

What a simpleton.

 

facts are ugly, aren't they?

 

owning a gun doesn't make you important

[builder206]

To my knowledge, in each of the states there are multiple legislative proposals moving forward to accomplish this. Some states are moving faster than others, and some have better ideas than others, but pretty much everywhere this problem is being addressed. I am sure you know that no legislative process goes at a rapid pace. Nationally the NRA supports an expanded database linking mental health records with the gun check database. I don't know the specifics other than that the NRA has stated that the current state of affairs needs fixing.

[builder206]

Source for that? I have taken three CCW combat shooting courses and every time there is a very strong statement that concealed carry ONLY is permissible in Washington. But, I could be misinformed.

 

Perhaps the author of the piece you posted meant that out in the forests you can carry open? My statement applied to carry in cities.

[Fairweather]

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this

provision is very strict.

 

yeah, WA lets people with mental and drug problems get CCW permits so they can shoot people at festivals

 

What a simpleton.

 

facts are ugly, aren't they?

 

owning a gun doesn't make you important

 

Facts? Your premise isn't factual at all. You even attempted to boost it with lies. What a tool.

[canyondweller]

1. A state carry permit has no bearing or force on federal land. A person without a Washington carry permit can carry a gun in a Washington National Park if this chnage is enacted.

2. Washington is most certainly not an open carry state. It is concealed carry only and enforcement of this provision is very strict.

 

1. Quoted from the CNN article (which mimics the rule change): "The proposed change would have the parks adopt the gun laws of the state in which they are located. This means a person would be able to take a loaded, concealed weapon into a national park if he or she holds a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon in a given state and as long as they would be allowed to carry a concealed weapon in that state's parks."

 

 

 

[Fairweather]

Source for that? I have taken three CCW combat shooting courses and every time there is a very strong statement that concealed carry ONLY is permissible in Washington. But, I could be misinformed.

 

Perhaps the author of the piece you posted meant that out in the forests you can carry open? My statement applied to carry in cities.

 

Huh? Gun laws are uniform throughout the state. Per the state constitution, no county or municipality is permitted to pass their own gun laws beyond what is permitted in the state constitution. Seattle's mayor is about to find this out. (Exceptions for stadiums, courthouses, taverns.)

Edited June 13, 2008 by Fairweather

[builder206]

Ah, OK then. The rule change I first read a couple years ago was to simply roll back the early-80s prohbition. The local-law adoption must have been something added during discussions. Thanks for that.

[Hugh Conway]

Facts? Your premise isn't factual at all. You even attempted to boost it with lies. What a tool.

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/364861_shooting28.html

 

A Snohomish man arrested after three people were shot last weekend at the Northwest Folklife Festival had a valid concealed weapon permit despite a history of mental health problems, police in Seattle and Snohomish County confirmed Tuesday.

[canyondweller]

Hugh - Errors happen in a system run by humans. That doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater, or that the given system is bad.

[STP]

Yeah the city ordinance would be more symbolic.

 

But they could charge you with trespassing.

 

--Source: Seattle gun ban ordered drawn up by Mayor Greg Nickels

[canyondweller]

Yeah the city ordinance would be more symbolic.

 

It's not an ordinance, it is an Executive Order, from the Mayor. It will mean nothing, and have no teeth.

 

Right, I don't really understand how they can make the trespassing charge stick in a PUBLIC park. Most likely, what they will do is get you for resisting arrest, when you fail to comply with their illegal requests. They'll push it as far as they can, until someone sues.