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[Bug]

I don't see the point of continuing this conversation with myself with a bunch sweat shop loving exploiters.

 

I mean, its one thing, for me to participate in the the exploitation by buying plastic crap, but for you losers to revel in and boast about how the exploitation of other people is "just part of this great process of ours" is inexcusable.

 

Your words are your own.

You are wallowing in selfrightuosness.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I don't see the point of continuing this conversation with myself with a bunch sweat shop loving exploiters.

 

if we are sweat-shop-loving exploiters than you are a clueless idealist (best case) or a heartless protectionist.

 

[marylou]

I don't see the point of continuing this conversation with myself with a bunch sweat shop loving exploiters.

 

I mean, its one thing, for me to participate in the the exploitation by buying plastic crap, but for you losers to revel in and boast about how the exploitation of other people is "just part of this great process of ours" is inexcusable.

 

See, this is why I had to walk away from the discussion myself.

[JayB]

Ming-Lee says:

 

"When I can feed my family with your good intentions, give me a call."

 

 

 

 

[olyclimber]

btw, i'm joking, i love you all. such interesting points of view! I never really thought I would hear someone call a sweatshop a wonderful thing!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweatshop

 

I guess I'm just caught up on the next step of our wonderful process of capitalism. And to deny that organized labor is a part of that process??? I don't get that. Are we not using the United States as the ideal for capitalism for these developing countries to use? Did someone miss a US history lesson? There are those that would seem to want to remain in the current stage of exploitation forever rather than talk about change. Bug, sure you claim that I pick a "arbitrary" point in our own history, but isn't the next step? First you get exploited, then you realize you're getting exploited and do something about it?

 

kk, I'm an idealist, but i'm not clueless.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I guess I'm just caught up on the next step of our wonderful process of capitalism. And to deny that organized labor is a part of that process???

 

Newsflash: China, the number one country for manufacturing cheap shit with dirt-cheap labor, is a communist country. Capitalism? Unions? Are you joking? Does Tiananmen mean anything to you?

 

[olyclimber]

Ming-Lee says:

 

"When I can feed my family with your good intentions, give me a call."

 

 

 

 

 

I hope Ming-Lee can forgive me for thinking that the exploitation of people is a bad thing.

 

Do you want me to post some pictures of children working in sweatshops ?

[olyclimber]

I guess I'm just caught up on the next step of our wonderful process of capitalism. And to deny that organized labor is a part of that process???

 

Newsflash: China, the number one country for manufacturing cheap shit with dirt-cheap labor, is a communist country. Capitalism? Unions? Are you joking? Does Tiananmen mean anything to you?

 

I see. Communism caused sweatshops. Unions caused sweatshops! OMFG! FORGIVE MY IGNORANCE!!!!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I see. Communism caused sweatshops. Unions caused sweatshops! OMFG! FORGIVE MY IGNORANCE!!!!

 

You just said you weren't clueless then you proved otherwise.

 

1) China is a communist country, not a capitalist one. Your arguments above (to which I responded directly) were talking about the "next step of capitalism" or some such crap. Pull your head out of your American-centric butt.

2) Unions can exist in a free country, like the United States, but not in Red China. Again, head, pull-out. Thx.

 

 

 

[Bug]

I never really thought I would hear someone call a sweatshop a wonderful thing!

Who said that? It wasn't me. You are using absolutes that remind me of the Bushites.

 

The arbitrary point (unionization)you picked is more then 100 years into our industrialization. Why do you need to have everything be OK right now? At what cost will you try to force this? Economics involve the redistribution of scarce resources for a desired outcome. Because I do not share your timetable I am evil? I have been involved in 3rd world economic development. I have sweeted beside them and seen them rise out of mud floored shacks to apartments. Sub-standard by your estimation I am sure. Now they are sending their children to school. There is much more to come. And they had to kiss the devil (large corporations) for awhile. It takes time and patience. This is NOT the same as giving in and giving up.

 

Take a deep breath.

[olyclimber]

I see. Communism caused sweatshops. Unions caused sweatshops! OMFG! FORGIVE MY IGNORANCE!!!!

 

You just said you weren't clueless then you proved otherwise.

 

1) China is a communist country, not a capitalist one. Your arguments above (to which I responded directly) were talking about the "next step of capitalism" or some such crap. Pull your head out of your American-centric butt.

2) Unions can exist in a free country, like the United States, but not in Red China. Again, head, pull-out. Thx.

 

 

 

Well thanks! I didn't know I was so un-worldly. You certainly schooled me. Where is China again? They are communist??? REALLY??? Now, now. I was being sarcastic, I didn't think I would have to spell that out. You don't know much about how China conducts business, do you? Sure, they are "Communist", but it isn't exactly as completely state run enterprise. But you know all this because you're smart, right? You know all about how China conducts business. Which is beside the point...why do sweatshops exist? Because there is a market for the cheapest goods, and the market doesn't care if people get exploited. Only people care. Well....some people care, apparently.

 

 

 

 

[JayB]

Ming-Lee says:

 

"When I can feed my family with your good intentions, give me a call."

 

 

 

 

 

I hope Ming-Lee can forgive me for thinking that the exploitation of people is a bad thing.

 

Do you want me to post some pictures of children working in sweatshops ?

 

Maybe. But I doubt she'd forgive you of depriving her of the best means that she has available for providing for herself and her family other than the $2 sucky-sucky in the Shanghai alley.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Well thanks! I didn't know I was so un-worldly. You certainly schooled me. Where is China again? They are communist??? REALLY??? Now, now. I was being sarcastic, I didn't think I would have to spell that out. You don't know much about how China conducts business, do you? Sure, they are "Communist", but it isn't exactly as completely state run enterprise. But you know all this because you're smart, right? You know all about how China conducts business. Which is beside the point...why do sweatshops exist? Because there is a market for the cheapest goods, and the market doesn't care if people get exploited. Only people care. Well....some people care, apparently.

 

 

 

 

Well, you go on with your bad self and "unionize" the ChiComms, smart guy.

[marylou]

Unions are illegal in China, genius.

[JayB]

And who outlawed them, pray-tell?

 

 

[olyclimber]

I never really thought I would hear someone call a sweatshop a wonderful thing!

Who said that? It wasn't me. You are using absolutes that remind me of the Bushites.

 

The arbitrary point (unionization)you picked is more then 100 years into our industrialization. Why do you need to have everything be OK right now? At what cost will you try to force this? Economics involve the redistribution of scarce resources for a desired outcome. Because I do not share your timetable I am evil? I have been involved in 3rd world economic development. I have sweeted beside them and seen them rise out of mud floored shacks to apartments. Sub-standard by your estimation I am sure. Now they are sending their children to school. There is much more to come. And they had to kiss the devil (large corporations) for awhile. It takes time and patience. This is NOT the same as giving in and giving up.

 

Take a deep breath.

 

I'm breathing fine Bug. My apologies to you, but I took this comment the wrong way apparently:

 

"These people had NO hope before they were being "exploited"."

 

I just don't see why it seems your are belittling (with quotes) what is exploitation? What EXACTLY was their situation before they became industrialized? Subsistence farmers? I don't know, perhaps KK will step in an school me. I'm not just talking about China here...all of SW Asia that has "sweatshop" type stuff going on.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Unions are illegal in China, genius.

 

no shit? really? golly. I would have pointed that out even more explicitly for porter but he already was so mean, calling me "worldly" in such a sarcastic tone, and saying I don't know how China "conducts business" and all.

 

I am sure YOU can explain it all to Porter though, since you vote and think like him and must be much smarter, and can help him in his crusade to unionize China.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

And who outlawed them, pray-tell?

 

 

CLEARLY IT IS ALL BUSH'S FAULT. AND CHENEY TOO.

 

[olyclimber]

 

 

Well, you go on with your bad self and "unionize" the ChiComms, smart guy.

 

If i knew a way...except I could call it making China a Democracy. My ideal of a union is not some communist mechanism, but rather people coming together and standing up for all people. I know that unions here in the States haven't exactly performed as such all the time, but they have had their moments in history...not unlike a nation coming together to elect a president.

 

 

[olyclimber]

And who outlawed them, pray-tell?

 

The quite visible hand of the communist party.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

 

Well, you go on with your bad self and "unionize" the ChiComms, smart guy.

 

If i knew a way...except I could call it making China a Democracy. My ideal of a union is not some communist mechanism, but rather people coming together and standing up for all people. I know that unions here in the States haven't exactly performed as such all the time, but they have had their moments in history...not unlike a nation coming together to elect a president.

 

 

Some Chinese people tried to come together and stand up for all the people. The outcome was not so good. I'm sure attempts to stand up and unionize would fare better though.

 

 

[olyclimber]

Unions are illegal in China, genius.

 

no shit? really? golly. I would have pointed that out even more explicitly for porter but he already was so mean, calling me "worldly" in such a sarcastic tone, and saying I don't know how China "conducts business" and all.

 

I am sure YOU can explain it all to Porter though, since you vote and think like him and must be much smarter, and can help him in his crusade to unionize China.

 

STFU KK, you know I love you. When I pass out party arm bands, you'll wear them with pride. Or else.

[olyclimber]

 

 

Well, you go on with your bad self and "unionize" the ChiComms, smart guy.

 

If i knew a way...except I could call it making China a Democracy. My ideal of a union is not some communist mechanism, but rather people coming together and standing up for all people. I know that unions here in the States haven't exactly performed as such all the time, but they have had their moments in history...not unlike a nation coming together to elect a president.

 

 

Some Chinese people tried to come together and stand up for all the people. The outcome was not so good. I'm sure attempts to stand up and unionize would fare better though.

 

 

I see you have gotten on JayB's Bus of Pessimism. Come now, join hands and sing "We are the World" with me.

[JayB]

And who outlawed them, pray-tell?

 

The quite visible hand of the communist party.

 

Why would they have done such a thing? This was a revolution by, for, and of the workers.

[olyclimber]

Your baiting isn't going to work JayB. Read the above conversation I had with myself while others shouted into the hall.