Ice axe

[johndavidjr]

From 1970 accident analysis by Alpine Club of Canada:

 

Another important point to be emphasized here is the difficulty in doing an ice-axe arrest with a short or "north wall" axe as compared with a mountaineering axe. Much of the effectiveness of an arrest on hard snow comes from the pressure of one's chest against the shaft of the ice axe. With a short axe there is less shaft and furthermore, it slips out of range easily. Witnesses to this incident report that whenever XX went into the self arrest position his axe went up so that his arms were stretched to full length above his head. This position probably made it easier for him to be flipped over onto his back, and was totally useless for arrest in hard snow. With a longer shafted axe, even if one's hand on the head is pulled out full length, one still has part of the shaft under the chest and one arm bent down near the chest to make rolling over less easy. Furthermore, it is more difficult for a long shafted axe to be drawn out from under the body to where one's arm is stretched up to full length.

[Couloir]

Is there a question?

[johndavidjr]

The old question is, APART from potentially significant compromises for climbing performance and transporting convenience, what is optimal length of an ice axe for self arrest and belays? I've used mainly a 70 cm but obviously a 60 cm would be more fashionable and more fun to carry in a pack. The write-up above, rather ancient, suggests that a 50-60 cm axe isn't as safe as 70 cm....However it seems to me an 80-90 cm axe and maybe even the 70 cm, is less that optimal for arrest/self belay, partly due to spike issues..... Is Ivon Chouinard still correct in is "Climbing Ice" book where he suggests 70 cm as the standard ?

 

Edited September 26, 2007 by johndavidjr

[Bug]

I have a couple 60's for most use. One normal weight, one super light (and super fun). I am 5'11".

I also have a 80 for more casual stuff.

It is handy as a walking stick/cane and is actually quite nice for slogging glaciers.

[builder206]

This was covered in FOTH 4.

[Bug]

What is FOTH 4?

 

[cj001f]

Call 1-800-SUBARUU and 2 brothers, err Mountaineers, will hand deliver a copy of the scripture directly to your home, imparting you with valuable wisdom on the nature of the true path and proper conduct in all matters Alpine. Freedom of the Hills, it's not just a book, it's a way of life.

[johndavidjr]

So all I'm asking is, what do Lutherans really believe about optimal arrest/belay ice axe length? What a gdmd stupid question--- Ehh??

Edited September 26, 2007 by johndavidjr

[mattp]

....However it seems to me an 80-90 cm axe and maybe even the 70 cm, is less that optimal for arrest/self belay, partly due to spike issues..... Is Ivon Chouinard still correct in is "Climbing Ice" book where he suggests 70 cm as the standard ?

 

I think that a longer shaft nearly always creates less of a problem related to "spike issues" if by that you mean poking yourself in the abdomen or face. I have practiced arrest with a variety of tool lengths, and my 50 mm lightweight axe is by far the scariest of the bunch (I haven't tried it with ice tools). Nobody seems to carry the longer tools anymore, but a 90 cm axe, an 80, or a 70 cm axe is just fine. 60 cm is marginal. 50 cm is NOT OK.

[Frikadeller]

What is FOTH 4?

 

Volume #4 of the holy grail.

 

There is a Volume #7 now...

 

It's required reading.

[Frikadeller]

So all I'm asking is, what do Lutherans really believe about optimal arrest/belay ice axe length? What a gdmd stupid question--- Ehh??

 

 

70cm, nuff said. (As far as the Lutherans are concerned)...

[blueserac]

Body posture and technique come to mind when thinking of self-arrest and self-belay more so than the length of the axe.

 

Poor technique and little committment will always fail you. Or, do you fail the technique?

 

60cm piolets seem to work the most ergonomicly on terrain that is fun and worthy of such an elegant tool. This length seems to work well for either me at 6'2" doing both self-arrest or self-belay over different slope angles as much as it does for my partner who is 5'3" on the same slopes in same techniques.

 

Speed of initiation of your techniques (whether self- belay or, then self-arrest), applied mass, angle of force and your holding onto the axe seem to key principles here.

 

Self-belay, shoulders over top the axe, everythning lined up driving the tool deep into the snow. Timing and committment are everything; and reacting is poor where foresight is better.

 

Self-arrest, body curled up driving your closest shoulder onto the axe head. The hand on the axe head is locked in place just over the shoulder. The opposite hand prises the spike/furrel/point up as in a lever and can guide the sharp bit away from your body; doing so can increase the dig of the pick. Your lower body is keyed intot he move usually pivoting from the knees; and this is best if you are wear crampons or on uneven terrain.

 

These bits of piolet vocabulary work well with the different piolets I have and also with all my ice tools. I find it easier to use self-belay if the spike is clear and shaft straight. Just a little easier. A shorter shaft ~60 cm in a piolet seems to be that happy medium for most plunging as well as all other techniques on terrain that you would not want ice tools.

 

Try this ratio, what is the distance from iliac crest to the A/C Joint of opposite shoulder?

 

Go back and re-read your Chiounard. Then practice and apply it.

[nkane]

So would you, Frikadeller and Blueserac, disagree with Dave Burdick's article, where he says

 

"Once people took these excellent new tools into the mountains, they realized that the modern designs climb mountains just fine, possibly even better than their predecessors. My advice is to buy ice tools that are primarily designed for climbing ice, because just about any tool can be used to climb snow."?