offwidthclimber Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 quote: Originally posted by pope: ...They represent the diminishment of adventure, the lowering of a mountain's defenses so that mediocre climbers have access. similarly, using cams, as opposed to just using stoppers, lowers the mountain's defenses so those who are not skilled at placing a hex or nut can climb too. it goes both ways. do you ever use bolts to rappel? are they okay for that use, but not as pro? sport climbing exists. it's not going away. deal with it. if you don't like it, ignore it and don't go to sport climbing venues and don't clip bolts. it's as simple as that. you have the choice. trad climbing is not better than sport climbing, nor is alpine climbing or mountaineering better than bouldering. it's just different. we're all climbers and it's all good. peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pope Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 Another one of these statements that are fun to extrapolate: SPORT CLIMBING EXISTS. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, IGNORE IT. Now, replace "sport climbing" with any of the following: clear cutting, auto theft, some guy screwin' your wife, etc. You want me to accept what is acceptable to you. Sounds easy enough. THINK BEYOND YOUR SPHERE, BUDDY. Good bolt, bad bolts: a belay anchor/rappel anchor, due to its practical applications, is less objectionable. Yet, I wouldn't want to see them all the way up a work of art like Orbit or Outerspace. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 Offwidthclimber, Your extrapolation to cams versus nuts does not hold water. I think the reason The Pope gives his blessing on the bolt in his story is because it was put up on lead. That person was climbing the mountain from the ground up. Removing the mountain's defenses is when you find a truly challenging section, and instead of attempting to climb it..FIRST you find a way around, lower down the climb, and remove part of the challenge by installing bolts. Is that more clear? If you can walk around the tough section and lower down, why not just toprope? That way you have not permanently removed the challenge, only temporarily for you, that day. And what's this crap about we're all different but we're all the same? Blech! Did you just call me a rap-bolter? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offwidthclimber Posted June 23, 2001 Share Posted June 23, 2001 quote: Originally posted by pope: Now, replace "sport climbing" with any of the following: clear cutting, auto theft, some guy screwin' your wife, etc. apples and oranges man. but yes, i understand what you're getting at. regardless, sport climbing exists and i personally don't think it needs to disappear. that's only my opinion. as long as it is kept in check and doesn't interfer with trad climbing and trad routes. chuck, i see what you're saying as well. although some chossy overhanging cliff devoid of natural pro opportunities, that is otherwise not used for climbing, seems like a decent place for bolted sport routes ...if someone wants to go through the trouble. you're not a rap bolter peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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