JosephH Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Seems like the route creator should equip a line in a way that they would be willing to lead it from ground up without preinspection. I agree, but be aware that sometimes leads to R and X rated routes as you sometimes end up in situations where you make do on the FA or FFA and that's how it ends up (and I'm ok with that). Quote
kevbone Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Seems like the route creator should equip a line in a way that they would be willing to lead it from ground up without preinspection. Tell that to Alan Watts and he will kick you ass. Quote
JosephH Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 ----Joseph----, firstly, I agree with pretty much everything you've said...but I'll play the advocate here again....in response to your comment about headpointing being reserved for "difficult" climbs....what does that mean exactly?....I think the idea of "difficulty" gets thrown around a lot without much regard to how relative the measure is. If climbing has an open ended grading system, and the periphery is always sliding up, dragging along the rest of us, and, what was deemed difficult yesterday is not today, is there much that can be said regarding "difficulty"? Is it just some arbitrary average? Is the essence really about "The Struggle", and how one goes about engaging in their struggle? Do you see what I'm saying? Headpointing is personal. You could head point a 5.6.... Kevin, Avi, et al - In discussions like this it's often the case where tactics and ethics end up in a lexical blender. Headpointing is a tactic - until it gets used in an FA and then, as several have pointed out, it then becomes a matter of ethics relative to the protection a route sports or doesn't. If an FA gets put up as an X-rated route because it was rehearsed to death on a top rope then, hell, that's a pretty different deal. But even there context counts. In the UK that's the tradition in places; don't bolt - headpoint. So they have incredibly bold leads, but with the understanding you should get it wired on a TR before attempting the send on lead. The implication there is different areas have different ethics around fixed protection which in turn drive the the tactics typically employed at a crag. If the ethic is no or minimal fixed pro then you can expect to see a lot of headpointing and it should be regarded as both ethical and 'the way'. On the otherhand, if you put up an X-rated sport route that you did a headpoint on after 50 top rope sends then you're probably going to catch a world of shit. Ethics, tactics, and style typically all develop togeather over time to become the 'traditions' of an area or crag. Ethics questions relative to fixed pro need to be evaluated in that full context and history. Quote
JosephH Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Seems like the route creator should equip a line in a way that they would be willing to lead it from ground up without preinspection. Tell that to Alan Watts and he will kick you ass. Again, context is everything... Quote
JosephH Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Getting some other viewpoints on THIS SPECIC ROUTE by others who have populated that specific area for years should get priority over a bunch of wankers like myself who may not have ever climbed at the area. This is good timeless advice to consider before putting up an FA regardless of the area if you're new to it... Quote
kevbone Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 On the otherhand, if you put up an X-rated sport route that you did a headpoint on after 50 top rope sends then you're probably going to catch a world of shit. Agreed! I would fling that person shit about that as well.....but would never screw with there route. I would just climb something else and walk away disapointed that there is a waste of rock out there. Quote
kevbone Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Getting some other viewpoints on THIS SPECIC ROUTE by others who have populated that specific area for years should get priority over a bunch of wankers like myself who may not have ever climbed at the area. This is good timeless advice to consider before putting up an FA regardless of the area if you're new to it... Its good advice....but try not to forget...none of us own the rock. Its usually public land. I hate the "its my beach and surf spot and you have not paid your dues" bullshit. Quote
David Trippett Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Getting some other viewpoints on THIS SPECIC ROUTE by others who have populated that specific area for years should get priority over a bunch of wankers like myself who may not have ever climbed at the area. This is good timeless advice to consider before putting up an FA regardless of the area if you're new to it... true....but when that's not possible it's maybe best to choose to err on the side of ground-up "TRAD" (in a trad area). Quote
pink Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 is this thread about deadpointing a long route or is it about retro-bolting. Quote
kevbone Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Bolt it and they will come. Chop it and they will run. Quote
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