H**d Aftermath..

[still_climbin]

I think the media is using the incident on Mt Hood as a way to get the general public to support more rules & regulations. It is a good distraction from other sources of government waste, when reality the cost of climber rescues is minimal in comparison. More rules / fees & permits will limit the use of our recreation areas to those with high incomes, not necessarily appropriate skills. It is already bad enough with permits in some counties that you almost need a permit to change a light bulb in your house. I don't think that is the direction we want to send our recreational areas.

The media doesn't use the incident for anything except to sell their product. Their mantra: "Use the news to gather an audience and sell it to the advertisers." What happens along the way is mearly colateral damage.

[Bamadad]

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/city/article/a_renowned_grand_teton_climbing_ranger_reflects_on_mt_hood_costs_of_rescues/C396/L396/

 

New West Interview With Senior Grand Teton National Park Climbing Ranger Renny Jackson ---By Todd Wilkinson, 12-21-06

 

(just a portion)

 

"This week, New West caught up with Renny Jackson, who oversees the world-renowned team of elite climbing rangers in Grand Teton National Park. Over the years, Jackson has organized or been a part of several high-profile search and rescue efforts in the Tetons. The unique corps of public servants has, on several occasions, been awarded special recognition from the federal government for putting their own lives in danger to aid others.

 

In the short interview with Jackson that follows, he refrains from speculating on the motivation of the Mt. Hood climbers and on technical aspects of search and rescue efforts there. But he does put the issue into focus. ....

...

 

NEW WEST (Bozeman, Montana): You’ve spearheaded the response for some pretty harrowing rescues on the Grand and other Teton peaks. In terms of assessing risk, what’s the Achilles Heel you often see?

 

JACKSON: One thing that I have seen with folks is that they might know about the light/fast philosophy but they don’t follow through with it. That is, if they find that they are going too slowly or they come up against their turnaround time, they continue instead of bailing and coming back another day. Sometimes it may take several failed attempts in order to learn what you need to learn in order to be able to be successful on a particular climb. This learning process never stops- I’m 54 and I am either learning new stuff or relearning the old stuff that I have forgotten.

 

NEW WEST: What’s the worst winter climbing experience you’ve had?

 

JACKSON: When my partner Hans Johnstone and I were trying to figure out how to climb the Grand Traverse in the winter. During one of our attempts, I was following him on the section between Teewinot and Mt. Owen. I knew we were a little too close to a cornice edge at one point and, sure enough, the bottom dropped out from under me as several tons of snow dropped onto a steep starting zone. Somehow I instantly did a backflip onto the windward side of the cornice and was OK. The cornice that broke hit the starting zone and started a large slab avalanche that ran a few thousand feet down to Teton Glacier. My partner and I were quite shaken by that and eventually bailed off the Traverse a little further along the ridge.That was my closest call and I was ignoring the warning bell that was going off in my head telling me that I was too close to the cornice edge.

 

NEW WEST: There’s been a growing debate over the question of whether rescuees should have to pay all or part of the bill for any mounting of a search effort. What are your thoughts?

 

JACKSON: In the national park setting I would say that rescuees should NOT have to pay for their rescues. All of us pay taxes and there are entrance fees to get into parks and fees for backcountry permits in some places. Tragedies such as the one on Mt. Hood bring a ton of media attention to the sport of mountaineering. Because of the sensationalism, people begin to believe that it is, without question, one of the riskiest endeavors that recreationists undertake. If you actually look at the statistics of what types of incidents occur on Federal land, some of the ones that generate the highest costs are not what one would expect. For example, searches for lost hikers or simply kids who wander off from campgrounds generate enormous costs. Boating accidents, motor vehicle accidents, and other similar incidents occur at statistically much higher rates."

 

 

 

[sobo]

Of course, Jackson's got it right. He read the report.

[W]

JACKSON: One thing that I have seen with folks is that they might know about the light/fast philosophy but they don’t follow through with it. That is, if they find that they are going too slowly or they come up against their turnaround time, they continue instead of bailing and coming back another day. Sometimes it may take several failed attempts in order to learn what you need to learn in order to be able to be successful on a particular climb. This learning process never stops- I’m 54 and I am either learning new stuff or relearning the old stuff that I have forgotten.

 

 

Truer words were never spoken. What gets lost in the hype about the light and fast philosophy is that failure has to be expected and welcomed and that the process is the point, not "success". It's cliche to quote Mark Twight, but let's face it, his book and his writings have done a lot for promoting and popularizing this style in the US, and in his assertions he makes no effort to downplay the fact that when employing such a style one must be prepared to fail when even a single problem arises, or to not even begin the climb at all. Many years ago, Charlie Porter once said 'if you wait for the weather you won't do jack-shit', and to some extent that remains true, but the light and fast ethic requires a careful reevaluation of that statement.

[niyol]

I noticed that the Oregonian had a block of letters to the editor today that were all supporting either requiring PLBs, rescue insurance or advocating that climbers not carrying locator devices be required to pay for their own rescue. The tone was that the governor should revisit requirements like this because of the financial costs of rescuing climbers. If any of you get a chance, you may want to take a look at the editorial page. Many of the facts that have been discussed on recent boards concerning SAR need to be put in front of the non-climbing public. The media attention seems to be driving an assumption that most rescue operations involve climbers.

Edited December 22, 2006 by niyol

[DirtyHarry]

I agree with W. But sometimes routes are committing by nature and bailing is not a good option, or not an option at all. Sometimes if something goes wrong (weather, or whatever) a party is so high on the route that the only option is to keep going up to the summit and down the other side. However, on routes like that, you better either get real lucky with the wedder or wait for some serious high pressure.

[sobo]

I noticed that the Oregonian had a block of letters to the editor today that were all supporting either requiring PLBs, rescue insurance or advocating that climbers not carrying locator devices be required to pay for their own rescue. The tone was that the governor should revisit requirements like this because of the financial costs of rescuing climbers. If any of you get a chance, you may want to take a look at the editorial page. Many of the facts that have been discussed on recent boards concerning SAR need to be put in front of the non-climbing public. The media attention seems to be driving an assumption that most rescue operations involve climbers.

 

Redirect those assholes to this thread.

[W]

I agree with W. But sometimes routes are committing by nature and bailing is not a good option, or not an option at all. Sometimes if something goes wrong (weather, or whatever) a party is so high on the route that the only option is to keep going up to the summit and down the other side.

 

True indeed; the term used for this is to "fail upward". (apologies for another Twightism)

 

However, on routes like that, you better either get real lucky with the wedder or wait for some serious high pressure.

 

In places like Alaska, employing the latter and hoping for the former, in the long run, I believe to be the recipe for both success and long life.

[niyol]

I noticed that the Oregonian had a block of letters to the editor today that were all supporting either requiring PLBs, rescue insurance or advocating that climbers not carrying locator devices be required to pay for their own rescue. The tone was that the governor should revisit requirements like this because of the financial costs of rescuing climbers. If any of you get a chance, you may want to take a look at the editorial page. Many of the facts that have been discussed on recent boards concerning SAR need to be put in front of the non-climbing public. The media attention seems to be driving an assumption that most rescue operations involve climbers.

 

Redirect those assholes to this post.

Unfortunately since those assholes aren't climbers, they won't see the post.. that's kinda the point. A lot of decisions may be made in the near future by people who don't have a clue about SAR or climbing. It wouldn't hurt to get some of these facts out in front of the non-climbing community.

[sobo]

Unfortunately since those assholes aren't climbers, they won't see the post.. that's kinda the point. A lot of decisions may be made in the near future by people who don't have a clue about SAR or climbing. It wouldn't hurt to get some of these facts out in front of the non-climbing community.

 

Point taken. Whenever we, as members of Central Washington Mountain Rescue, make a pitch at a public education venue, we always try to throw in a little bit of what the AAC report concludes (a lot of folks had already come to the same conclusion, it was just never put in print so clearly and for public consumption). And I always find a way to inform the audience that they aren't paying for anything "extra" that they wouldn't have already paid for in their taxes before I hit them up for a donation. Of course, I'm only reaching a small segment of the population...

 

On the other hand, a lot of people (~1M) came to this site recently not knowing a lot about climbing or SAR/mountain rescue. I'll be the first to admit that now that the rescue has been called off and the effort has shifted to recovery, a lot of these people will just go away. The opportunity to educate those people is now lost.

 

However, I made the post in my other thread (with the AAC report link) in the hopes that at least some of these newcomers (and non-climbers) would see that thread, read the report, and become educated. Perhaps they may even help to spread the word around the office coffee pot and higher up the food chain of public consciousness. And that's why I used the subject line that I did - to grab their collective attention while the incident is still fresh in everyone's mind.

[joblo7]

when i first came to cc. it was to monitor the rescue. i was looking for pics,routes.climbing time for ascent/ descent, nf routes ratings etc.....to learn mt hood , and their climb. i did not find much of that.it took a while.there was a lot of insider info that was useful to regulars i'm sure. i was watching the tv coverage and they were clueless.most, here were supportive to gawkers to a point..some stuff had to be shot down, but once you go to full spray mode ,its better to delete i guess.and redirect to spray. starting distinct threads would been great. hood beta/nf/pics/etc.

you guys did great!!!!!

[dmuja]

just reminder that this isnt the thread to speculate or comment on "what happened" etc.. Its more about issues relating to *possible* future imposed fees, mandatory regulations or restrictions to access in the wake of "what happened".

 

THNX..

 

crossed fingers, hoping its not on 60min this Sunday..shhhhh...

[archenemy]

Americans are the most "outraged" group of people on the planet. Who will really have the follow through to try and legislate anything related to climbing?

 

And here is the perfect Christmas gift idea (albeit an unoriginal one) for the climber in your life: a donation to the Access Fund.

[sk]

Americans are the most "outraged" group of people on the planet. Who will really have the follow through to try and legislate anything related to climbing?

 

And here is the perfect Christmas gift idea (albeit an unoriginal one) for the climber in your life: a donation to the Access Fund.

 

or you could make a donation in someones name to their favorite web site!!! not as actiony but still.