jfreeburg Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 I wasn't trying to make it sound easier than it really is to achieve change, just giving people a general direction to go on. If the government is ineffective, it's because enough people haven't voiced their displeasure to it. Don't blame the government for not meeting your personal needs. Blame yourself for not making this country one you want to live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottP Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 I wasn't trying to make it sound easier than it really is to achieve change, just giving people a general direction to go on. If the government is ineffective, it's because enough people haven't voiced their displeasure to it. Don't blame the government for not meeting your personal needs. Blame yourself for not making this country one you want to live in. "Blame yourself for not making this country one you want to live in" WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian_Knight Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Hey all you climbers, I was reading your threads on the Peshastin issue -- open when its blazing in the summer heat and closed when its nice and cool like now. I'm a climber and I'm also the outdoors writer for the Wenatchee World. I'm hoping to do a story on this, but I'll need to be able to talk to some of you guys about this to give the story some color and perspective. I'll be asking the State Parks the questions you guys asked in the threads and try to figure out if it can do something to accommodate climbers. As far as climbing the Pinnacles in the summer, I know what you mean. I moved to Cashmere in mid-June and have waited for the whitewater to recede (I'm a kayaker too) and the heat to abate before I took my daily trips up there to climb a bit. I went up there the other day to see that it was closed. A bummer, for sure. So for now, I'm bouldering a bit up Icicle. Anyway, please feel free to call or e-mail me at: (509) 664-7145 x 222 or knight@wenworld.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian_Knight Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Christian Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 CKnight, you should dig up the old articles that praise the reopening of the PP and maybe there was an article that spoke of the collapse of trigger finger...for your reading intrest. One thing is for sure, that parking lot is HUGE and a waste of space. Also, it is not just climbers that like to use this park...hikers, dog walkers, picnicers and even geology classes use the facilities, trails and view or scramble on the rocks. The real question is why is it gated anyway? The only maintanence issues should be the lawn (unneeded) and restrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoli_mike Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Agreed, given the precedent of Exit 38/Deception Crags being a State Park and you have an unattended bathroom/parking lot with climbing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMo Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Moreover, if for some actual reason there is only the $$ or whatever to keep the place open a certain fraction of the year it doesn't seem unreasonable to have the closures in months like June, July, & August when it's too hot , and then have it open, say, Labor Day to whenever. If the restrooms are in fact gone (I haven't been there in a while), then the only reasonable cost issue I could see (if they do it)would be garbage pickup. I really don't see why something like the Pinnacles should ever be officially "closed" at all. The only closure that ever made sense to me was when problems developed that caused the orchard owners to close it before and during harvest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Actually, the park is used in the summer by non climbers...so really it should never close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 The "closure" is probably politically motivated due to lobbying or bribe from orchard owners who don't like climbers as neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMo Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Maybe, but I doubt it. Objections from the landowners centered around huge parking cluster fuck along the road and issues with the fruit in season. With those and liability issues (which may just have been a red herring) resolved, plus sale of an un-farmable hillside they have little reason to care. In earlier days, with smaller numbers of climbers, relations were excellent. One could drive up through the orchard & park by the fence with no hassle. I agree with those who state there should be no closure at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONK Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 The Park is always open, just the gate is closed because of funds, or so a Ranger once told Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 The "closure" is probably politically motivated due to lobbying or bribe from orchard owners who don't like climbers as neighbours. Well they sold the damn orchard in the first place. Besides it won't be long before all the orchards are redeveloped into estates for all the westsiders and california folk to move into for weekend getaways. I was always under the impression the park did not officially close as well but I have heard of numerous occasions where people are climbing on vivible crags (ie martian slab, orchard rock) and were called down by sheriff deputies (ticketed? do not know). I myself have been climbing there on many occassions without incident in the off-season. Parked near the gate, across the street and even down the street. Climbing on less-vivisible crags and wearing sandstone colored duds helps a lot. (I am not supporting poaching...just fueling the minifire). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tivoli_mike Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 The Park is always open, just the gate is closed because of funds, or so a Ranger once told Me Summer: 6:30 a.m. to dusk. Winter: Closed Oct. 9, reopens March 16, depending on trail conditions. From : http://www.parks.wa.gov/parkpage.asp?selectedpark=Peshastin%20Pinnacles&pageno=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 ...but I have heard of numerous occasions where people are climbing on vivible crags (ie martian slab, orchard rock) and were called down by sheriff deputies (ticketed? do not know)... I have been "bull horned" off the crags, most notably Martian Tower (Butter Brickle) and Martian Slab (upper routes), on more than one occasion by LEO. Never got a ticket... yet. So in that case, bwrts's comments about choosing less visible crags might have been wise. By choosing less visible routes, like those on GCT or Dinousaur Tower, the ranger/deputy would have to hike in and find you to tell you to leave, and by then, he may be mad enough at you (after having to actually get out of his truck and walk a bit) that he would probably ticket you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
still_climbin Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 I happened to meet two ranger types from the State Parks Dept at a Visitors and Convention reception in the Tri Cities yesterday. I asked them about the Peshastin Park closure situation. They told me that all parks are free to access any time of the year. The only things that closes are the roads, parking lots and any facilities. A sheriff deputy has no jurisdiction in keeping anyone out of a park and only has authority at the invititation of the State for vandalism or other crimes. They said that the real issure may be parking on the road or access to the park land through other lands. They suggested talking to the Park Dept. management, contacting the WA State Parks Commission or talking to (forgot her name) the Ranger at the Lake Wenatchee State Park who also is an avid climber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Sweet! Way to go, SC! Thanks for clearing that up. I'll give that a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwrts Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 In other words SC, perhaps we should get the State Park to remove the damn gate, then no one would have to lock or open it and there would be no parking on the road problem...Hmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexd Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Fellow Climbers: After being denied access by a closed gate myself last weekend, I thought it important to do a little digging. That is when I came upon this discussion. After absorbing information from several of your postings including opinions, history, and suggestions of people to talk to I made a couple phone calls and ended up talking to Matt Morrison who works at the Wenatchee Confluence State Park. He’s a nice guy. Although I did not get his title, it sounds as though he runs things at that station. The number there is 509-664-6373. The more friendly AND opinionated climbers he talks to the better. I learned a lot when talking to him about my disappointment in the early closure of the Peshastin Pinnacle State Park (PPSP). Here are a few of the highlights, potential ways to get involved, and all kinds of things to talk and nag about: 1. The have funding for and are searching for a full-time ranger. They will be interviewing in the up and coming months. I can’t think of a better way to ensure that I get what I want than to have a fellow climber serving as the ranger at PPSP. 2. Open v. Closed. PPSP was supposed to be open until October 16 (I expressed that this was still too early), but they had a major catastrophe at the park. Here is the story that Matt gave me, and I believe it. He was given short notice from those higher up that the removal of the sewer vaults of the old bathroom. So, he shut the park down with very short notice. On October 9th, they brought equipment in to remove the old sewer vaults and started in, only to find that when it was pumped out earlier, it was not done all the way. The result was serious contamination of the area due to the raw sewage that spilled out. The soil contamination problem is not been cleaned up yet because the truck to be used needs a new transmission (meanwhile solid waste is leaching into the soil and the ground water…?!?). This is something that I, for one will be checking back in with Matt on. It is important that they get that cleaned up right away for many reasons, one being a timely opening of the park in the spring. He said he has no problem extending the season if the weather is good next year. side note: Matt said that over the summer months there was a flash flood that washed out the trail they had just reestablished/renovated and he made the decision not to close the park to redo the trail because it looked like the climbers were doing a good job of safely navigating the wash and essentially creating their own trail. 3. Official decisions by the State Park service (Agency/Matt) must be approved by the Washington Parks Commission (Commission). The time of closure right now is October 16. Matt said that if he officially changes the closure he has to go through the Commission. So he generally just keeps the park open longer than that on his own accord, weather permitting (he said he did so last year). This year, there were special circumstances due to the construction/deconstruction of bathrooms. He asked what a thought about when it should be open to. I told him that I personally would use the park long into November, and again in early March even April. I explained that just because the ground is wet doesn’t mean the rock is. I also told him that there was significant interest among all climbers, myself included, in having the park open year round. Here’s the reason for not doing that: maintenance. He would have to plow the road and, etc, etc. 4. Wenatchee Land Classification Plan: This is a plan being done through the Park Service where they classify or zone the land within state parks of this region. This plan is in the works and there is going to be public comment opportunity in December, Matt thought it would be sometime the second week in December. The folks to talk to about this are: Bruce Beyerl (509) 663-9730 lake.wenatchee.planning@parks.wa.gov. Right now PPSP is divided into two zones “resource area” and “recreation area.” The resource area is where we climb, defined resource because the resource, rock, is what the attraction is. As opposed to the “recreation” area or the rest of the park. Sounds like a lot less impact/development happens in resource areas, which is the way I personally like it. But you would have an opportunity to comment on the way the land is divided if you wanted to go to the public comment meeting. 5. Matt is open to suggestions on improvements. Here are a few that he has heard of already: (1)benches at the base of some climbs; (2) signage denoting which slab you are at; (3) a brochure. I expressed to him my own personal opinion that I have never been to a climbing area that had benches and that I would prefer not to have benches at the base of any climb. I also expressed that I think some simple signage may be effective and useful but that generally, that is what guidebooks are for. If you have other suggestions of improvements for Matt you should contact him and let him know. 6. As a side note, it sounds like they are trying to reopen Squilchuck, the old ski area before Mission Ridge, as a sledding area. This came up when I talked to him about leaving PPSP open year round. I would imagine it will divide resources even more over the winter months. I asked if there would be a skate or classic track maintained there and he said no. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Now that's good beta. Thanks for getting involved, alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
still_climbin Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Alex, Nice follow-up. I like the idea of park users contacting this Matt guy. Did he mention an email address? That would be the best way for the keyboard freaks that frequent this site to weigh in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexd Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Matt Morrison, of the Wenatchee Confluence State Park, was hesitant to to give me his email because "it is a horrible way to get ahold of me and I dont respond quickly." But, he did give it to me with the knowledge that I could post it on this site, so: wenatchee.confluence@parks.wa.gov Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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