Does Bush think we're morons?

[archenemy]

Expand your mind. Consequences unseen still happen. What would my great great grandmother who came from Norway what mattered most to her a full stomach or the right to an abortion. In case you do not know people were starving to death there at the turn of the century.

 

Butterfly wings.

 

I learned that in a history class I took while living in Denmark, but thank you for trying to enlighten me.

 

And the effect I see here is a sad one indeed--you were born.

[selkirk]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

[archenemy]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

good point. I overlooked that.

[Peter_Puget]

 

You crack me up.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I am not pro-abortion. If I were, the first thing I would do is lobby to have you aborted.

 

Spoken like a true "human rights" advocate.

[selkirk]

=> don't be so hard on yourself.

 

 

I'll try a different approach:

A genie offers you a choice of two really cool things. You must pick one. The first choice would make abortion rights irrevocable. The second choice would bring up all those currently living in poverty in the US metro regions up to (at least) national averages for education, neighborhood crime rates and employment/income. What would you pick? Would you really choose the first?

 

WTF? That's like comparing apples and penguins.

[archenemy]

 

You crack me up.

 

Sweet.

 

You have no effect on me whatsoever. But I am sure you hear that from women all the time.

[archenemy]

I am not pro-abortion. If I were, the first thing I would do is lobby to have you aborted.

 

Spoken like a true "human rights" advocate.

 

You have to be human to qualify.

[JoshK]

What would my great great grandmother who came from Norway what mattered most to her a full stomach or the right to an abortion. In case you do not know people were starving to death there at the turn of the century.

 

Exactly my point. YOU (and your like-minded friends) are the ones who support a party that has turned politics into a debate about abortion and their other ideological counterparts rather than a debate about issues that effect the common man. You, yourself, might not place much salience (sp?) on those particular issues but the fact remains that you put your support behind a party that has deliberately chosen that path to secure power.

[selkirk]

Is anyone actually pro-abortion?

 

There's a huge difference between

pro-abortion and pro-choice.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

and talking about right and wrong is far different from legislating it

[archenemy]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

[JoshK]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

[archenemy]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

 

Josh, I am going to keep this post for ever and ever. Next time I post something shitty to you, remind me that I am being an asshole and that I need to reread this post.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

I'm talking about the human life that is about to be terminated.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

 

but if "they" choose to, then the men have the "responsibility" to cough up the $$$ of course. :-))

[JoshK]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

 

Josh, I am going to keep this post for ever and ever. Next time I post something shitty to you, remind me that I am being an asshole and that I need to reread this post.

 

[cj001f]

I'm talking about the human life that is about to be terminated.

 

There are Jews in the world.

There are Buddhists.

There are Hindus and Mormons, and then

There are those that follow Mohammed, but

I've never been one of them.

 

I'm a Roman Catholic,

And have been since before I was born,

And the one thing they say about Catholics is:

They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.

You don't have to have a great brain.

You don't have to have any clothes on. You're

A Catholic the moment Dad came,

 

Because

 

Every sperm is sacred.

Every sperm is great.

If a sperm is wasted,

God gets quite irate.

 

Every sperm is sacred.

Every sperm is great.

If a sperm is wasted,

God gets quite irate.

 

Let the heathen spill theirs

On the dusty ground.

God shall make them pay for

Each sperm that can't be found.

 

Every sperm is wanted.

Every sperm is good.

Every sperm is needed

In your neighbourhood.

 

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,

Spill theirs just anywhere,

But God loves those who treat their

Semen with more care.

 

Every sperm is sacred.

Every sperm is great.

If a sperm is wasted,

God gets quite irate.

 

Every sperm is sacred.

Every sperm is good.

Every sperm is needed

In your neighbourhood!

 

Every sperm is useful.

Every sperm is fine.

God needs everybody's.

Mine! And mine! And mine!

 

Let the Pagan spill theirs

O'er mountain, hill, and plain.

God shall strike them down for

Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

 

Every sperm is sacred.

Every sperm is good.

Every sperm is needed

In your neighbourhood.

 

Every sperm is sacred.

Every sperm is great.

If a sperm is wasted,

God gets quite iraaaaate!

[archenemy]

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

I'm talking about the human life that is about to be terminated.

 

And I am talking about men like you.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Is anyone actually pro-abortion?

 

There's a huge difference between

pro-abortion and pro-choice.

 

pro-choice and pro-life are euphemisms designed by their advocates to make their respective position more appealing.

[archenemy]

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

 

but if "they" choose to, then the men have the "responsibility" to cough up the $$$ of course. :-))

 

Here's a suggestion: develop the "responsibility" to cough up the money for a vasectomy, a package of condoms, or a professional. Then you don't have to worry about getting some girl (who failed on her part of the responsibility to control her fertility, or went to one of those pharmacies that refuse to fill birth control perscriptions for women, or who doesn't have the money to pay for it because the same health coverage that pays for Viagra doesn't always cover birth control, etc etc etc) pregnant.

 

Figure it out and stop acting like a whiny little bitch.

[JayB]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

 

Is this a particular case, or do you believe that in a general sense one cannot formulate an opinion that extends beyond the particulars of one's identity?

 

By this logic no one should take women's opinion on the draft seriously, because they do not have to register for selective service.

 

As things stand now, women have the final say on whether or not they wish to bear a child or abort it - and I'm personally comfortable with that - but it doesn't follow that men should preclude themselves from even thinking about the morality of the matter, or that their opinions should be discounted on the basis of their gender alone, if for no other reason that you are essentially using an ad hominem argument to defend a woman's right to make this decision - and it's an incredibly weak means of doing so.

[JayB]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

What argument do you use when confronted with a woman who believes abortion is immoral and should be made illegal? Can't see the gender argument working very well there.

[archenemy]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

What argument do you use when confronted with a woman who believes abortion is immoral and should be made illegal? Can't see the gender argument working very well there.

 

Nope, it doesn't. I use the one that makes sense to me.

 

I happen to also believe abortion is immoral b/c it results in the willful killing of another human being. However, I refuse to enforce my beliefs on other women and thereby cause more harm (emotional harm from having to bear an unwanted child, physical harm resulting from illegal abortions, etc etc.)

[archenemy]

I love it when people who are all about personal rights, and anti-big government, think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies.

 

"their bodies" is where the argument falls flat on its ass. there's more than one person involved

 

 

Men seem to think that they are the other person involved. Wrong.

 

BINGO. The assertion that men, politicians or not, should be involved in the decision is laughable. The females of our race have the responsibility of bringing children into this world, and with that responsibility comes a right to make the decision on when and how they do that.

 

Is this a particular case, or do you believe that in a general sense one cannot formulate an opinion that extends beyond the particulars of one's identity?

 

By this logic no one should take women's opinion on the draft seriously, because they do not have to register for selective service.

 

As things stand now, women have the final say on whether or not they wish to bear a child or abort it - and I'm personally comfortable with that - but it doesn't follow that men should preclude themselves from even thinking about the morality of the matter, or that their opinions should be discounted on the basis of their gender alone, if for no other reason that you are essentially using an ad hominem argument to defend a woman's right to make this decision - and it's an incredibly weak means of doing so.

 

Formulating an opinion is different than legislating rule.

 

And because men are the overwhelming force in legislature, what you said about women not having a say in the draft is essentially true. But even aside from that, I could probably be convinced that as long as women are not drafted, that it could be up to men alone to decide on whether they wish to continue that barbaric practice or not. Hell, it's men who start the wars that require the deaths of so many people in the first place--you guys are more than welcome to deal with that problem and pay for it with your own blood.