the "uselessness" of climbing?

[Jason_Martin]

There are two schools of thought on climbing and selfishness...

 

First, climbing is a useless and selfish pursuit. It forces you to take time away from your family and those you love for a singular goal. The inherent danger involved in attaining that goal could ultimately bring about one's death. And thus deprive those who love you -- spouse and kids -- of your presence permanently...according to those who abide by this, your death would be a selfish and meaningless death.

 

Perhaps someone might say at your funeral, "he died doing what he loved." Indeed, such a remark is terrible. Because it indicates that such a pursuit was more important than family and friends.

 

On the other hand...

 

Climbing has been called "moral war." In other words, climbing a mountain and enduring the strategy and stress of such a thing creates close companionship that might only be found on a battlefield. It is moral because one is not forced to kill anybody intentionally in order to attain this level of companionship. Your partner is guarding your life. You are guarding his. Close partnerships create close friendships, friendships that might not be created on a golf course or in a bowling league.

 

Climbing puts meaning into my life and has provided me with all of my closest friends. It has sent me to places in the third world that I might not have otherwise experienced. In the course of a climbing adventure I became godfather to a small child who lives in a mud house. I have helped to financially support that child. Going to beautiful places and extending myeslf to my physical and emotional limits has tremendously improved who I am. It has improved my relationships and my attitude about life in general. I know that like many here, I am defined by my climbing.

 

Climbing is meaningless to those who don't participate in it. Just as football and basketball are meaningless to me. There are millions who watch these sports on t.v. and orchestrate their lives and friendships around them...are we different than that?

 

Yes.

 

Definately.

 

Saving your buddy from getting tackled during a pick-up football game is tremendously different from arresting a crevasse fall...and this is why climbing has meaning...

[thelawgoddess]

Perhaps someone might say at your funeral, "he died doing what he loved." Indeed, such a remark is terrible. Because it indicates that such a pursuit was more important than family and friends.

i would hope people wouldn't take it that way. love yourself first. that doesn't mean you don't love others ...

[archenemy]

There are two schools of thought on climbing and selfishness...

 

First, climbing is a useless and selfish pursuit. It forces you to take time away from your family and those you love for a singular goal. The inherent danger involved in attaining that goal could ultimately bring about one's death. And thus deprive those who love you -- spouse and kids -- of your presence permanently...according to those who abide by this, your death would be a selfish and meaningless death.

 

Perhaps someone might say at your funeral, "he died doing what he loved." Indeed, such a remark is terrible. Because it indicates that such a pursuit was more important than family and friends.

 

On the other hand...

 

Climbing has been called "moral war." In other words, climbing a mountain and enduring the strategy and stress of such a thing creates close companionship that might only be found on a battlefield. It is moral because one is not forced to kill anybody intentionally in order to attain this level of companionship. Your partner is guarding your life. You are guarding his. Close partnerships create close friendships, friendships that might not be created on a golf course or in a bowling league.

 

Climbing puts meaning into my life and has provided me with all of my closest friends. It has sent me to places in the third world that I might not have otherwise experienced. In the course of a climbing adventure I became godfather to a small child who lives in a mud house. I have helped to financially support that child. Going to beautiful places and extending myeslf to my physical and emotional limits has tremendously improved who I am. It has improved my relationships and my attitude about life in general. I know that like many here, I am defined by my climbing.

 

Climbing is meaningless to those who don't participate in it. Just as football and basketball are meaningless to me. There are millions who watch these sports on t.v. and orchestrate their lives and friendships around them...are we different than that?

 

Yes.

 

Definately.

 

Saving your buddy from getting tackled during a pick-up football game is tremendously different from arresting a crevasse fall...and this is why climbing has meaning...

These are some interesting points to mull over.

 

I don't know about choosing climbing over being with people I love. I have to go to work for about nine hours five days a week, and I certainly don't love work more than my family/friends/dogs. Also, I climb with people I love, so no problem there.

 

And I would hope people said I died doing something I loved if I were killed climbing. This isn't terrible. What's terrible is the more likely scenario that I could be killed driving to work--that sucks. Again, neither of these activities is more important that family and friends; but no one wants to be around me 24/7 (can you imagine?).

 

As for the "moral war" bit--I have not heard this phrase. However, I am often surprised at the way men discuss outdoor persuits (like "assaulting the summit") in terms that frame it in violence. Your point about protecting each other's lives is cool; but I am no closer with my climbing buddies than I am with my skiing buddies. Maybe I am just insensitive to the idea or else oversensitive to needing to trust whomever I am with regardless of what the activity is.

 

I really like what you say about climbing prompting your travel and your relationship building. I suspect its possible that you would have accomplished these things using a different method had climbing not presented itself to you--but your appreciation of the process makes me look at the wonderful experiences that climbing has exposed me to over the years.

 

I don't know if my ramblings go anywhere, but there you are.

[Norman_Clyde]

Climbing has been called "moral war." In other words, climbing a mountain and enduring the strategy and stress of such a thing creates close companionship that might only be found on a battlefield. It is moral because one is not forced to kill anybody intentionally in order to attain this level of companionship. Your partner is guarding your life. You are guarding his. Close partnerships create close friendships, friendships that might not be created on a golf course or in a bowling league.

 

Very well put. Do you know who said it originally?

 

There is another argument, which has common threads with the above and also with the "keeps the kids off the streets" thesis. Young human beings, especially men, whether rich or poor are usually brimming over with aggressive energy. Even in a subsistence culture, groups of human beings usually have a greater supply of this aggressive energy than they need. It behooves a society to channel this energy into activities not involving violence. It appears that most American men only need to watch football and/or NASCAR to keep their energy in check. An elitist few can't stay satisfied with only watching sports, and actually need to participate. Of those who continue to participate in recreational sports after adolescence, an even smaller group seek out activities involving higher stress and risk. Climbers are among these.

 

If you buy the above logical sequence, then climbers are a group possessing an above average surplus of aggressive energy and pursuit of risk. It follows that if we weren't climbing, we would be putting a lot of energy into something else, perhaps something not as socially acceptable.

[archenemy]

There is another argument, which has common threads with the above and also with the "keeps the kids off the streets" thesis. Young human beings, especially men, whether rich or poor are usually brimming over with aggressive energy. Even in a subsistence culture, groups of human beings usually have a greater supply of this aggressive energy than they need. It behooves a society to channel this energy into activities not involving violence. It appears that most American men only need to watch football and/or NASCAR to keep their energy in check. An elitist few can't stay satisfied with only watching sports, and actually need to participate. Of those who continue to participate in recreational sports after adolescence, an even smaller group seek out activities involving higher stress and risk. Climbers are among these.

 

If you look at the statistics in the US, you will see that violence among young girls is climbing at a staggering rate. This argument may, unfortunately, soon hold as true for females as it does for males.

[Stefan]

climbing is a hobby.

 

just like model train sets.

[Drederek]

I wonder why discussing a journalist's book would cause us to attempy justifying our climbing addictions? What about the uselessness of his writing?

Thats what I like about women : they taught me the best defense is a good offense! (sorry)