Disappointment Cleaver or Ingraham Glacier Direct?

[the_Oracle]

Hi all,

 

I am climbing with a group of climbers making a bid for the summit on June 23rd via the DC route.

 

We will not be using a guide. Except for our leader, no one has been on a glacier before. Our group (6 members) breaks down like this:

#1. Our team leader has climbed Rainier several times. He lives in the Tacoma area.

#2. Been to Rainier for hiking and camping, has been on the Muir snowfield, but never been to or past Camp Muir. He has hiked Si and other similar hills. He lives in Tacoma.

#3. An avid rock climber (from the East coast) with lots of gear (rope/anchors/etc.) experience but no mountaineering experience. Book knowledge is the extent of his glacier travel.

#4. A fit guy who wants to climb the mountain (Similar to #3). He is from Arizona.

#5. An avid hiker/climber how has climbed something like 30+ of the Colorado 14ners. He is going to Peru for some additional hiking/climbing later this year. He is from Arizona.

#6. Another avid mountaineer (similar to #5). He is from Arizona.

 

Everyone is in good shape (some more than others, but all are fit).

 

I am not posting to see if we qualify for a try at this, we are going to make our attempt.

 

Here is our dilemma: Do we climb DC or ID???

 

We had planned on climbing the DC route, but one of the members (#6) had this to say today, "The Disappointment Cleaver route has not been climbed in quite a while according to the rangers. Everyone is using the Ingraham Glacier Direct Route. There has been quite a lot of snow lately and the crevasses are covered with rather unconsolidated snow in places. If the DC route does not see much traffic between now and then, I think we should change plans and follow the herd."

 

I mentioned that it is NORMAL for ID to be more popular early in the season (because it is more direct and less prone to avalanches before Summer). But, DC becomes more popular after the first week or two of June because the ID melts out some and crevasse navigation can be tough.

 

However, #2 mentions that this is not the "typical" year, because snow fall has been down through the Winter and the climbs may/will be different than normal.

 

I am all for whatever the team decides, but I just wanted to point out that the DC is rarely traveled ANY year before June (according to Gauthier's book).

 

Since we will be 4 weeks into June on our climb, I am guessing DC will see lots more traffic by then.

 

Any idea on what route(s) the guided groups are using?

 

Does anyone have any ideas, insight, comments or questions that could help us determining the best course of action?

 

Climb on,

Rip

[Redoubt]

There is really no reason you need to make your route decision until you're up there. And my advice, for a group with very limited Rainier/glacier experience, is to do whatever route that RMI (the guide service) is doing. As of last week, I know they are still doing the ID, but I'd guess there is an excellent chance they'll be doing the DC by the 23rd. When you register, the ranger might know what RMI is doing. Otherwise, just register for either route and then see what RMI is up to once you get to Muir. If you all feel really fit, make sure you start ahead of RMI in the morning. If you simply want to make sure you get to the top, or if the weather is questionable, just wait till RMI leaves Muir and follow them up.

[Divot]

This is going to be really fun, I better clock in up at Muir a bit earlier on the 23rd.......Its gonna be real fun, I can already tell............................

 

By the way........following RMI is lame.......you should be able to take care of yourself, including your own selected footsteps.

[the_Oracle]

Do I detect a note of sarcasm in your text? I suppose all criticism is good... I just prefer reading constructive...

 

Flame away,

Rip

This is going to be really fun, I better clock in up at Muir a bit earlier on the 23rd.......Its gonna be real fun, I can already tell............................

 

By the way........following RMI is lame.......you should be able to take care of yourself, including your own selected footsteps.

[Billygoat]

Well, if one of you falls into a crevasse, you have enough peeps to yard them out directly, so no need to know how to set up pulleys and anchors....but back to your question; whatever floats the boat when you get there and scope out the sitmo. that's what I would do.

 

Goat

[the_Oracle]

True. However, we are all familiar with many snow and ice anchors and the C and Z pulley (just-in-case). Even just for the weight of a pack, I normally use a C pulley system to draw a "full" backpack up. But with multiple people, you could (as you mention) just pull the dead weight up 1:1.

 

We would always setup anchors after a fall for safeties sake (no matter how many are on our team). I prefer using the Z for a rescue, because you can really hurt someone doing a 1:1 lift when they reach the lip. I have found that the "slower" Z pulley gives your tugging group (if you will) time to realize you are crushing your partner against the edge.

 

(:

 

Well, if one of you falls into a cravasse, you have enough peeps to yard them out directly, so no need to know how to set up pulleys and anchors.

[Billygoat]

You could also just "blow" them out with some nitroglycerin....But that takes a little practice.

 

 

 

which one are you btw? I guess the East Coast guy but you talk like you have Glacier rescue experience...hmmmm

[ryland_moore]

If you could do either, I'd say do the ID as it is more aesthetic..... I'd actually scrap both of them and do the Emmons for a better glacier experience. It is easier, I think than DC or ID and is the largest glacier in the lower 48.

[thelawgoddess]

which one are you btw? I guess the East Coast guy but you talk like you have Glacier rescue experience...hmmmm

i would guess that, too, since his location says "MD". his first post says this person's glacier exp is limited to book knowledge, but it's plenty easy to practice setting up pulley systems and whatnot without a real crevasse to do it in, and it sounds like they've spent some work doing that.

[Billygoat]

I prefer using the Z for a rescue, because you can really hurt someone doing a 1:1 lift when they reach the lip. I have found that the "slower" Z pulley gives your tugging group (if you will) time to realize you are crushing your partner against the edge.

 

He sure talks like he's done it before. Maybe he just sleeps with the book under his pillow, for a little osmosis action

 

I think he is the ring leader, #1...trolling for beta to reassure a nervous flock.

[the_Oracle]

Alas, I am #3.

I have been rock climbing in the East for 7 years. But, I have NEVER been on a glacier.

 

For the past 2 months, I have been practicing climbing a rope via prusiks. And, I setup C and Z pulleys everyday inside my house.

 

Just like everything else in my life (i.e. rock climbing, motorcycle racing, training beginning riders as an MSF instructor, training clients to burn fat as an NSPA/CPT, running marathons, running my own computer consulting company with 12+ employees and a yearly revenue of 3 million, Oracle database administration, amateur photography, etc...) I am doing home study, practice, and research.

 

I believe that with a level head you can accomplish anything. I know there are those of you here who don't believe it is possible to climb a mountain without real-life experience... But, I assure you there are plenty who do. And, I plan to be one of them. In the event that weather or some other unforseen event stops me, then I will return until I complete this goal. Of course, if I fail the first time, then I will have acquired some real-life experience...

 

I assume you give newbies a hard time because you are sincerly concerned about there wellbeing and not to make yourself feel better. In this case, than I thank you for your honest opinion and I assure you that I will do everything possible to keep myself and more importantly my climbing partners safe.

 

Wish me luck (oh, that's right, I don't believe in luck). So, wish me well.

 

(:

 

-Rip

[Billygoat]

Just like everything else in my life (i.e. rock climbing, motorcycle racing, training beginning riders as an MSF instructor, training clients to burn fat as an NSPA/CPT, running marathons, running my own computer consulting company with 12+ employees and a yearly revenue of 3 million, Oracle database administration, amateur photography, etc...) I am doing home study, practice, and research.

 

Sounds like you need a vacation, Rip... Enjoy your relaxing stay on Washington's Mt. Rainier.

 

Bill E. Goat

Head of Washington's Travel Relations Board

[the_Oracle]

Just like everything else in my life (i.e. rock climbing, motorcycle racing, training beginning riders as an MSF instructor, training clients to burn fat as an NSPA/CPT, running marathons, running my own computer consulting company with 12+ employees and a yearly revenue of 3 million, Oracle database administration, amateur photography, etc...) I am doing home study, practice, and research.

 

Sounds like you need a vacation, Rip... Enjoy your relaxing stay on Washington's Mt. Rainier.

 

Bill E. Goat

Head of Washington's Travel Relations Board

You ain't kiddin'... I just had my first child 4 months ago as well!

 

(: