Terminal_Gravity Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Does anybody have any sage input or experience on the use of 2 ropes & Münter hitches for belay? If a climber is not making a gumby mistake, like the knot won't flip 'cause the biner is not big enough, is there any reason not to use the two ropes through a pear 'biner....or is it better to use them though separate biners? It strikes me that with a twin set-up 2 biners would be better but with halfs a single would be better. Any comments (or spray)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I haven't thought much about the relative safety of whether to use one or two biners, but I once climbed with a German climbing partner who INSISTED that the ONLY proper way to belay ANYTHING was to use two 8.8 or 9mm ropes as one (twin rope technique) and to belay with a single meunter hitch (with both strands in the same knot). When we had to deviate from the perfect system and clip the lead ropes separately (double rope technique), the belayer could slip one rope past the other in the meunter knot but it certainly wasn't easy. Maybe you should check the German Alpine Club website (they must have one) and see if it has their latest recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Term, I ussualy use two seperate munters on one big biner. Seems to work fine, and the ropes act independently. Anyone suggets otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Term, I ussualy use two seperate munters on one big biner. Seems to work fine, and the ropes act independently. Anyone suggets otherwise? Mattp says above 2 ropes in the same knot. I assume that means the ropes run parrallel through the 'biner. I have tried this at home at it seems to work fine unless I have to pull one rope for a ways by itself if the other isn't tensioned. Lammie, are you suggesting that you tie two separate hitches? I would have never thunk that. Does it work? do they each flip independantly. I think that with a dilegent belayer any of these systems is safe. I am more concerned with ease of use and the avoidance of a cluster fuck. thanks - tg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Yes that is exactly what I am suggesting. it was recomended to me by Charlie Fowler, who instructs AMGA guides. Try it, it works great. It's much better if you can pull in the slack of the ropes independently, as the route may dictate that more rope is out on one rope than the other, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Use a reverso. I struggled with this question and messed around a bit and found the reverso much easier to deal with when using two ropes. You don't have to deal with knots flipping, and its auto-locking, so you have a lot more flexiblity in rope management. The reverso wins on the cluster fuck factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayjay Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 i'm a big fan of double ropes -- climbed on them almost exclusively for years -- and have always used an ATC. works great! if using double ropes i'd vote for doing 2 separate meunter hitches on separate 'biners so you can let out/take up slack separately on them, as they are supposed to be used. with twins, though, yeah, 2 meunters on one 'biner seems cool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 except then you have a potential load-bearing knot hanging out a good distance from the spine of the carabiner on a big pear-type biner. Some people might be disturbed by this. I like the two ropes as one from the rope-management angle but I don't use two ropes much as a system so feel free to discount this opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haireball Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 I've preferred two-rope systems for nearly twenty years now, and until just last year, belayed exclusively with munter hitches. On a single pear-krab, whether combining both ropes into a single big kluster-munter or creating side-by-side munters, I've found it tricky to manage the slack/tension in the independent strands - much easier to do on independent krabs. So, unless you're twinning, I wouldn't recommend trying to run both strands off a single krab. Not that it doesn't work - I've put in lotta rock-miles in the klustermunter configuration- it' just way easier when they're separate. As you may ascertain from above posts, most any two-slot belay tool will work fine. My personal favorite is the O-P "SBG" -Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambone Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Yes, I agree...screw munter hitches...use a Reverso. Although it is good to have options for those times where you forget, or drop your belay device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 The reverso is a good tool, but I should note that I almost exclusively use double ropes and I do just fine with an ATC and I actually find it a little easier to use - though the reverso is clearly much better for belaying two seconds. If using the meunter, I'd be inclined to go with the twin knows in light of Lammy's comment, but I haven't tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted November 6, 2002 Author Share Posted November 6, 2002 Thanks all. Don't get me wrong; I don't have an un-healthy infatuation with Münter Hitches, I just like to have as many well thought out tricks up my sleave as possible. Cheers - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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