Dr_Crash Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I am thinking of dropping my 23 degrees synthetic bag in favor of a combination EP Half Bag / Belay Jacket. Wild Things says the combination would be rated at about 20-25. Total weight would be 52 oz (24 oz for the bag and 28 oz for the jacket). I do not know about how much room it would take in a pack and have asked them. Has anybody used that bag in real life? Comments? Another possibility would be a sub-kilo 20 bag (34 oz) and a Patagonia micro puff Polarguard jacket (16 oz) for a tad less weight (50 oz total) and more warmth (since I'll want to carry a jacket anyway), without the water resistance advantage of synthetic for the bag. What would you guys with experience think would fly better for the Cascades? Do not put price in the equation. Thanks, YA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 20 degrees is a liberal rating but it so depends on how much clothes you have on inside the bag. I've used it down to zero with ample clothes (generally your partners aren't as stupid as you about weight saving and bring a full bag so you can wear there belay jackets in addition to yours. I use mine with an arcteryx fission. You could just get a Nunatuk 20 degree arc alpinist (full length) for the same weight of just the half bag. All in all it works for me. What other Q's do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Web site for Nunatuk? Why did you choose this combo (looks like you have it) instead of say something like the alternative I am considering? How "liberal" is the 20 rating in your opinion? If I go for something like that my other layers will be merino bottom / capilene top and a Marmot driclime wind jacket. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 http://nunatakusa.com/ Don't bitch about the prices... you get what you pay for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I choose this combo for routes I know I am going to get soaked on (hence syn fill over down) and will most likely wearing leathers (bag is cut big enough for boots). Additionally the bag has bivy sack material intergrated into fabric so you can leave bivy sack at home. My preference is generally - no sleeping bag if too cold: - nunatak down bag if wet conditions: - half bag + belay jacket What pants are you wearing for the bivy or do you walk around in your long underwear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Pants on snow would be REI One heavyweight (to be replaced by some Mammut Champ, not as insulated I think), on rock some Arc'teryx Shaska pants. I don't think I would sleep w/o insulation, mostly against the wind. Brrrrr. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 What routes are you thinking about using this combo on? Generally if its cold enough to merit a belay jacket I am in climbing pants Arcteryx MX pants or Gamma SV bibs (don't make these anymore). You will get cold well before 25 if you wear that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treknclime Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 NOLSe...that nanatk stuff is dope. What are you using on your two day trips? That orange bag of yours...is that a half bag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Rainier for example. The belay jacket would be for stops, and it definitely gets down to 25 at night. I might also get that when backcountry skiing, in case I need to do an unplanned bivy. Patagonia's micro puff pants look warmer and lighter than the Wild Things EP Pants but still are an extra 14 oz. Argh. Any idea how the 6 oz of Primaloft compare to 2.6 oz of Polarguard Delta (what the Patagonia Micro Puff is made of)? drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Depends on conditions on route. I have taken my orange nunatak bag (which is a full length zipperless 25 oz 800+ fill down bag ) on multiple day routes in winter but only if the forecast was dry or super cold and wet (so the precip that fell was in the snow form which is much easier to protect your bag from). If its gonna be wet I take the half bag. What routes are you looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC007 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 NOLSe, how do you like the Half bag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 If you're gonna get wet and want to go light its the shit. And for you midgets (Rudy!) its almost a full bag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I don't think I would sleep w/o insulation, mostly against the wind. Brrrrr. As the saying goes: If you aren't cold you brought too many clothes If you aren't hungry you brought too much food And if you summit it was too easy anyways. Trying going bagless a few times this summer at Smith or something... getting a gauge of what you can and can't do in the alpine with out a bag is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Rainier for example. The belay jacket would be for stops, and it definitely gets down to 25 at night. I might also get that when backcountry skiing, in case I need to do an unplanned bivy. Do routes in a day and carry no bivy gear or go from a high point (Muir, etc) and leave everything in the tent. Patagonia's micro puff pants look warmer and lighter than the Wild Things EP Pants but still are an extra 14 oz. Argh. Mtn Hardwear makes a good light pair (PG3D)... I have a pair I'll sell you. The new ones from Arc Teryx look like the shit. Any idea how the 6 oz of Primaloft compare to 2.6 oz of Polarguard Delta (what the Patagonia Micro Puff is made of)? Negligible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Re: the comparison I didn't ask about the 1.4 oz of weight I asked about warmth. The garments then are nearly a pound apart. drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Which 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treknclime Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 What's your halfbag fabric? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Which 2? Micro Puff (2.6 oz Polarguard Delta) 16 oz EP Belay Jacket (6 oz primaloft) 28 oz Ok, 3/4 pound apart. (If comparing with the DAS jacket, only 1 oz apart.) drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Micropuff isn't warm enough to be considered a belay jacket IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Mtn Hardwear makes a good light pair (PG3D)... I have a pair I'll sell you. The new ones from Arc Teryx look like the shit. The Chugach's? Overbuilt! You don't need handwarmer pockets! Puff pants weigh 7oz less. Fission's look alright; Micro puffs are still lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 From the guy who doesn't alpine climb. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Yeah, NOLSe, we're all glad that you're here to give your expert alpine opinion on everything. Give it a rest. And I use the Golite equivalent to the Micropuff as a belay jacket frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Nobody said anything about me being an expert. If they did they would be wrong. But I find it comical how opinionated some people are about gear they have never even worn or venues they don’t pursue. Maybe a micropuff is adequate for you due to a higher percentage body fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 But I find it comical how opinionated some people are about gear they have never even worn or venues they don’t pursue. Maybe a micropuff is adequate for you due to a higher percentage body fat. Hmm. I compared all 3 in the store. I liked the Mountain Hardwear least of all because it's overbuilt and underfilled. The micropuffs were quite nice. You've never met me; you don't know dick about me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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