Ways to protect your self on 4th class rock solo?

[klenke]

Dru, sometimes there is no Class 3 alternative way around the Class 4, which is usually a short step but not always. But yes, you are also right about Class 4 being a terrain most should be able to free-climb. However, the foregoing statement is subjective: easier to say for those more experienced, harder to fathom for newbies. As mattp says, you can be belayed across it to mitigate a long (potentially) fatal fall. A chossy rock stance could come loose and send you down. Probably more people die on Class 4 than Class 5 every year. And let's face it, often the loosest most dangerous rock out there is found on Class 4 terrain. It's usually Class 4 because of the many stances created by loose-lying material. Class 5 is apt to be more clean (but not always, since I know you like nitpicking on details to be....well...you).

 

You can self-belay on any kind of terrain, be it flat Class 1 or vertical Class 5. The process is the same either way though it can be cumbersome to do on flat terrain. For sure anyone learning how to do it should do so on benign Class 2/3 terrain where a mistake won't get you hurt. Then once you've figured out how to do it take it to the real thing.

 

It would be kind of like crevasse rescue practice. You can practice it in a grass field. It's not the real thing but it's still practicing and not dangerous.

[Alpinfox]

free-climb

 

Klenke, I think you mean "free-solo" instead of "free-climb". I also think you made this same error in your Guye Peak TR.

[klenke]

Yeah, free-solo; thanks. Lexdysia.

[Dru]

Matt and others - it's like this - you think "hey I will go solo this 4th class ridge".

 

If you get scared on the ridge, to the point where you whip out the self belay system: you made a mistake! You should have 1) come with a partner or 2) chosen an easier destionation for the day.

 

The question Blakej posted is no different than someone posting saying "Hey. I'm gonna go freesolo the Squamish Buttress, but I can't freesolo 10c so I'm going to rope-solo the crux pitch. How do I do it?" - same answer - if you don't think you can do it you shouldn't be planning how you are going to aid through it somehow. You should be planning on soloing something more within your ability.

[klenke]

I don't understand why it should be a mistake--cut and dry. We've all gone climbing where we find ourselves in an unintended tough spot and have to innovate to persevere. Choosing to self-belay across any terrain--be it Class 4/5/6/12/56/88--is just a way of reducing the risk in case a fall should occur.

 

Your Squamish example is different (to me at least) because it implies the climber knows ahead of time he'll be cheating his way past something he can't climb. In Blakej's case, I am guessing he's referring to sketchy terrain not foreseen in advance. It is improbable one could blindy go someplace new and not come across terrain that pushes your ability envelope. Blakej is just looking for a methodology to surmount these difficulties.

 

Forget for a second the legitimacy of him being there in the first place. It's beside the point of his initial post (as least as I see it). It was you, Dru, who instigated the "he shouldn't even be there" comment.

[Dru]

What I get from Blakej's question is that he is planning ahead of time to self belay on a 4th class route. Not a "what if this is too hard for me and I need to self belay" but "This is going to be something I need to self belay on". A rope and equipment to safely self belay is not necessarily something you would take "just in case" anyways due to the weight. Rock shoes as a "just in case", maybe.

[klenke]

He says at the end, "...but it's nice to have a safety net."

I was assuming he's talking about unforeseen sketchy terrain that he would like to cross. He's just wondering about processes people have developed to mitigate the hazards of falling. He doesn't really talk about the difficulty of the climbing itself, only the security he'd like for it.

[Dru]

When in doubt, don't

[klenke]

That's your recommendation? You must not successfully summit much.

 

I'd say something like:

When in doubt, concentrate, think things through, take a deep breath, try (with a self-belay in case you should fall ). If still in doubt, don't.

[JosephH]

I'm with Dru on this one...

 

I can only speak for myself, but I either roped solo or free solo; in general, I don't allow for any middle ground as you are introducing both ambiguity and uncertainty I'm not comfortable with. What if you get into the middle of it and can't deal but there is no pro to be had? At what point in the possibly sudden sketchfest do you whip out your self belay system? You make a lot of assumptions about life in general if you leave on an unknown free solo with the idea that you'll have the judgment, calm, and possibility of protection if you start to sketch - too many for me, ambiguities and assumptions like those scare me worse than the free solo generally. There is also the lingering trade-off question of: would I better off and safer if I just kept free soloing or if I get out the gear - hey, who knows, you might "lose your nerve" just because you have the gear and try to whip it out at a time when you would have been way, way better off to keep on moving.

 

Dean Potter does this on his mixed solos, but he knows when, what, why, where, and how to use that rope before he leaves the ground on those routes. For me, if I know the route I know whether to free or rope. If I don't know the route and I can't tell from looking at it and I don't get the "right" smell or feeling about it all I rope up - the only time I end up in the in-between state is when I've been "caught" and that has never been a good feeling or a good day (except living through it)...

[Dru]

That's your recommendation? You must not successfully summit much.

 

No, don't doubt much. Also never self belayed except on aid climbs. It is too much of a time wasting clusterfuck.

[chucK]

I think Dru's example of the Squamish Butt is right on. It's the exact same situation bumped up a few grades. Say you wanted to have a fun time climbing and wanted to summit. The only part that is in the way is the 10c pitch. You could get by it by rope soloing. Big deal. Not a mistake. Perhaps impractical (carrying all that extra weight along for one pitch does seem to negate a bit of the fun), but if you're a peak-bagger and it's the only way (Squamish Butt analogy breaks down here) then you're gonna have to carry the weight anyway.

 

Nothing wrong with carrying soloing gear along to safely circumnavigate a short spot. It'll be heavier, and maybe take some of the fun out of the rest of the hike, but if you really wanna summit that peak, then that's maybe the price you gotta pay. It's not a mistake just because someone's idea of fun is different than Dru's.

[Dru]

You guys are assuming that somehow you just HAVE to climb that one peak. And since Hypothetical Peak has a short 4th class section by the easiest route, then if you want to climb Hypothetical safely you have to rope solo.

 

What I'm saying is that if you are going to have to drag a rope along to safely get up the 4th class Standard Route on Hypothetical Peak, you'd be better off heading for the 3rd class Cakewalk Scramble Ledges on Big Easy Mountain across the valley. You can come back and climb Hypothetical later, when you are experienced enough to not need that rope soloing gear. Don't drag the mountain/route down to your level - choose a mountain appropriate to your experience and aptitude.

[JosephH]

Also never self belayed except on aid climbs. It is too much of a time wasting clusterfuck.

 

With the rope in a pack and the grigri it really isn't much of a clusterfuck at all. The YRS method with all the knots definitely was, but once you get either technique down it all goes pretty clean, straightforward, and fast (given there are no belays). I can climb the pitches twice (lead and clean) faster alone than with a partner.

 

I will say though that, inspite of doing it for 30 years, it consistently still scares me pissless for the first half hour (or two pitches) of each climb at the beginning of each season, but after that it just gets utterly sublime and dreamy. Whenever the last full moon was I ended going out to Beacon late, doing four pitches and finishing up the route and two full raps by its light. Had the place to myself and it was just so still and lit up, yet alive with all sorts of beasts fluttering about and noises that I had to hang at the top rap station for quite a while to take it all in. I like climbing with partners, but it's a whole other dimension for me and I can't imagine my climbing experience without these quiet and wholly self-reliant sessions in the mix on a semi-regular basis.

 

Not looking forward to the prospect of moving into the gym for the winter...

[lancegranite]

I've done the Potter system (carrying a few bits of kit and a 8mm) for some longer solos.

 

I take the gear along to harvest the rich booty crop that grows down here.