Cordelette as prusik?

[johndavidjr]

Maybe this is properly "Newbie" material, but I'm trying to figure out how to use a cordelette as prusik. Some Canadians recommended using cordelettes in crevasse rescue, which I comprehend only slightly. I'm now wondering if one could tie one up for ascending a rope in a pinch.

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[scott_harpell]

You use a friction knot like the prussik knot. Unweighted you can slide it up and weighted it holds pretty good depending on the diameters involved.

[johndavidjr]

I can certainly tie the knot, but how to rig it with 8-10-foot cordelette, that I frequently carry anyway for anchors?

[scott_harpell]

Wel it is really easy to tie in a looped configuration. I am assuming you know how to do this... To use them, usually you need two. 1) attached to you harness (a short one) 2) on ewith foot loops (long one). You baisically attach both to the rope and weight one and slide the other one up the rope. Then weight the other one and slide the unweighted one up.... ince by inch. make sense? is that what you wanted to know?

[johndavidjr]

No. I carry prussic slings that are old and slightly suspect for the unlikely rope ascent while cragging. I also carry a cordelette for anchors. I want to ditch at least one of the slings I carry for prussickking and use cordelette instead. Also, I want to understand how the cordelette can be used as prusik in other self-rescue situations when you might need an extra.

[Alpinfox]

 

I think the long length of a cordellete would make it very unwieldy and cumbersome to use as a prusik. Why not just carry a smaller piece of cord for your prusik? Or, buy a couple of tiblocs.

[scott_harpell]

you can jsut make it shorter/doubled over with an overhand figure 8

[dryad]

Are you trying to rig a foot/Texas prussik sorta thing? That might work. Here is a crude visual aid. Please forgive my poor Paint skills and potentially baseless idle conjecture.

 

Has anyone tried using spectra for a prussik, since that's what most people's cordalettes are made out of? Does the stiffness of the material cause a problem?

Edited October 1, 2004 by dryad

[ketch]

Dryad, I think that you would still have some long tails. The length of line that I use for my texas is shorter than my cordolette. But it is a good idea to think through, if you need help then whatever works is good.

 

It is my understanding that for rescue stuff spectra is not good for a prussick. Thats only because of the low melting point of spectra and the possibility of generating enough heat if you catch a fall with the prussick. I don't think that you would get there with a texas rig. One other challenge I just went through. If you are using floss or some other small glacier rope there may not be enough size difference for the prussick to work, unless you have a 4 mm spectra cordolette.

[scott_harpell]

Thats only because of the low melting point of spectra and the possibility of generating enough heat if you catch a fall with the prussick.

 

and the slippery nature of it... try it before you are on a glacier i would say... every possible rope combination you might use. Some work and some don't

[ashw_justin]

You gotta be more specific john. Of course you can use your cordelette as a prussik. Just tie the knots, then tie off and decide where to stow the slack. Or invent a configuration like dryad's.

 

maybe this artwork will help.

(rope)|(prussik knot)======(loop)=======(tie-off knot)&^%$(slack)^#(&$%

 

Otherwise, it seems like you are expecting some kind of genius rope trick for setting up a 15-to-1 self-tending ratcheting hauling system...?

[Freeman]

John, for what it is worth - a cordelette has all sorts of uses besides just equalizing anchors. Tie it off short to improvise a prusik to climb the rope (altho I usually carry a pair of Purcell Prusiks which I also use to clip anchors). By untying the grapevine knot you can use the cordelette to excape the belay with a munter mule and you can control an injured partner if you have to do a counterbalance rappel. I also carry a very short 5 mm prusik primarily for backing up my rap device but also for the waist loop prusik if I have to ascend the rope (of course you can do this with a slung nut or a sling). I've usually got the cordelette, two Purcell Prusiks, and the little prusik all hanging from my harness. And the cordelettes sometimes gets left behind on alpine rap anchors.

[johndavidjr]

Oyeh--! So complicated. I like the sketch by Mr. Harpell tremendously!!! But gee whiz, is my cordelette spectra?

[Freeman]

is my cordelette spectra?

 

Probably not, but if it is don't use it for a gripping knot like a prusik.

 

Pick up a copy of Luebben's "Knots for Climber" or Fasulo's "Self-Rescue". And practice, practice, practice...

[dryad]

I tested out the cordalette as prusik concept yesterday. I didn't mess around with tying anything complicated, just 1 knot to get it to a reasonable length then wadded up the rest into some kind of half-assed coil so it's not dangling. I happened to be using 5.5mm spectra (Maxim tech cord, to be exact) cordalette on a 9mm-ish double rope. Worked like a champ. If anything, the stiffness of the cord was a good thing becuase the loops around the rope stayed put and didn't get all mangled each time I slid it up. The only disclaimer I have is that this was on rock so everything was dry. Next time somebody would have to hose me down to model how this would work on a wet glacier.

 

By the way, even if you don't have any cordage of any kind, hope is not lost. You can still climb the rope with slings if you use kleimheist knots.

[johndavidjr]

still don't get the concept, really but can't learn climbing on message board. Are you saying your sketch of Texas Prussic sling worked out veyr well? How long is your cordelette?

[ketch]

JDJ, I was looking through some stuff of John Longs recently. He has a method that he recomends for climbing a rope when you are stuck short on gear.

 

It calls for a double length sling (or two singles girth hitched) these you tie as a Bachman and then the long end goes to your harness via a locker. Then you tie a figure-8 on a bight a little less than 1/3 of your cordolette. The loop needs to be large enough that you can tie another Bachman with the loop. The short tail goes to the locker on your harness and is adjusted so that both bachmans can be together. The long leg is tied into a foot loop or a bowline on a bight (for both feet) such that you can high step into them without too much effort. After that it is climb with the cordolette and rest into the sling. I gave it a quick try and it works pretty well.

 

Nice set up for one sling, one cordolette, and three beiners (one locking)

[Alpinfox]

... if I have to ascend the rope of course you can do this with a slung nut...

 

Explain please?

[Bill_Simpkins]

I've prusiked up all sorts of rope on anything you can tie a knot with. 1 inch nylon webbing, spectra sewn runners, mammuts dyneema, 5 mm cord, whatever. I've even used the rope itself to tie a prusik and ascend.

It all works. Sometimes you have to wrap it around the rope a few more times and dink with the knot a little, but it all will get you up the rope. A cordellette is fine.

[DavidHiers]

What strikes me as interesting is the singular sense of "cordlette".

 

It seems to me that to ascend, you need:

 

1. 2 friction knots (upper and lower)

2. 1 attachment point to harness

3. 1 foot loop

 

Interesting problem to solve with a single loop.

 

I think that the problem get easier if you consider autoblocks instead of prusiks, and its got to be solvable if you permit the cordalette to be used as a single strand instead of a loop. Either way, it seems weirdish.

 

It may have been a joke. Did the Canadians say "eh" or "beauty" when they told you about it?

[DPS]

Next time somebody would have to hose me down to model how this would work on a wet glacier.

 

I think Catbirdseat is first in line for that job