TimL Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 I guess the way I see it, climbing is a first come first serve basis. If you want a route that bad, then get there earlier. In regards to beginners, we all started at one point, have a little friggin understanding rather then bitching on the internet about something. A $10 chain is worth less then someones life. As for places to take people, everything is open, although there are some areas better suited for beginners. And whats with this assumption that everyone started climbing in the gym! Quote
ChocChick Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 When mother nature created our outdoor playgrounds, I am POSITIVE her intent was to create a wonderful place for EVERY creature to enjoy. Just because parts of the playground are established routes, doesn't mean you can't enjoy the wonders, beginner or advanced. It's a free world, let's not be prejudice. We ALL have to start somewhere when it comes to trying new things. I have been climbing 10 years now, and STILL remember the first few times I climbed. Nothing is worse than being super excited about trying something new and then getting snide comments from other parties who may be waiting or climbing on neighboring routes. I don't get why some climbers have to be so F*$#ing high and mighty. Not saying ANY of YOU have, just that we should ALL, as humans, be a little more tolerant of differences. Okay, enough said. I am done trying to spread peace and love. Quote
Alpinfox Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 I'm tolerant of beginners and slow climbers and such, but there are times when they do stupid shit and deserve to hear about it. Top-roping the first pitch of a multi-pitch route for hours and hours Top-roping a popular climb for hours and hours while others are waiting around to LEAD it Leaving top-ropes hanging on a climb and no one is climbing Climbing in large groups (understandable, but adds to clusterfuck potential) Etc... Being a beginner is fine, being an inconsiderate ass is not fine no matter what your experience level. I understand that climbing has some unique etiquette that beginners might not know about, so politely offering some advice is not out of order. Peace and love! Quote
slaphappy Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Alpinfox I would seriously discourage the use of those Fixe anchor things. (none of those at the Gates ) (I know Mattp would disagree) Once they wear to the point of danger there is no good way to replace the worn parts. Adding new ones creates more holes and a mess in my opinion. I prefer the setup like the ones used at the Pearly Gates. 2 hangers, 2 bolts (somewhat equalized) a 5 or 7 link 3/8" chain connected to the hangers with a minimum of 5/16" quick links. (an odd number of links assures the bottom link is in the correct orientation) THE BEEFIER THE BETTER! All wearable parts are easily replaceable without a drill. I buy setups at Lowe's for the most part, they seem to be the cheapest. 3/8" zinc plated chain runs $2.98 a foot, 5/16" quicklinks run $2.19 and 7/16" (better!) run $2.69, I get hangers for about $1.60 depending on the brand. I'm currently a huge fan of the new Madrock hangers strong, lightweight, super small profile and a dull finish so they don't gleem from far away, and you can rap directly through the hangers. I buy bolts from Western Fastners 3/8" x 2 1/4" run $1.30ish each if you buy a box of 50. The 3" ones are a bit more, wedge anchors are about $.25 in boxes of 50 or more. Quote
Alpinfox Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Adding new ones creates more holes... If you use an expansion bolt (like Powers) you can just unscrew the bolt and replace the hanger. No need to drill a new hole. That said, I agree that your setup is initially cheaper and cheaper to replace. Thanks for all the info. Where do you get those hangers? This thread has taken a lot of twists and turns around the original topic. Sorry about that. Quote
slaphappy Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Have you ever successfully removed and reinstalled a 5-piece bolt? I have tried on more than one occasion, I was semi succesful once (had to add a washer to tighten it completely) and that was only a day or two after placing it (a spinner) I have seen it posted on here before that they are replaceable, I call bullshit. After any significant amount of time (one winter) it is impossible to retrieve the wedge stuck in the hole. You can try wire or whatever but the oxidation will prevent success. Trying to rethread the bolt into the imbedded wedge may work but I doubt it will tighten sufficiently without some funk. The replaceable part is a myth from those who haven't tried it. Make friends with some of the local shop employees/owners, I'm sure they will sell you quatities of hangers at a discounted rate. Leavenworth Mountain Sports carries Madrock hangers. Quote
ChocChick Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 I'm tolerant of beginners and slow climbers and such, but there are times when they do stupid shit and deserve to hear about it. Top-roping the first pitch of a multi-pitch route for hours and hours Top-roping a popular climb for hours and hours while others are waiting around to LEAD it Leaving top-ropes hanging on a climb and no one is climbing Climbing in large groups (understandable, but adds to clusterfuck potential) Etc... Being a beginner is fine, being an inconsiderate ass is not fine no matter what your experience level. I understand that climbing has some unique etiquette that beginners might not know about, so politely offering some advice is not out of order. Peace and love! Nice to have a partner in the Peace and Love movement! Thanks AlpinFoxxy! Your rants are mine, as well. Offering constructive advice to new climbers is always good! But if you are an experienced climber taking a newbie out, it would be great to clue them in on the process. That's for sure! As a general rule, when I am teaching someone to climb, I don't use a multi-pitch route for the first "real" rock climb. I generally go to sport areas where we can top rope so I can watch them and give tips on technique. If climbers are doing something dangerous, I always speak up. Yep, Peace & Love! Quote
Alpinfox Posted July 8, 2004 Posted July 8, 2004 Have you ever successfully removed and reinstalled a 5-piece bolt? I've never tried to do it on one that has been exposed to the elements for a winter. It's good to know that it's not as easy as I thought. Thanks. Quote
dukiebird Posted July 9, 2004 Posted July 9, 2004 Jesus, I sense a lot of frustration at beginners and less-than-pro climbers here. As a completely unofficial and unauthorized ambassador for newbies everywhere, I gotta say that the thread here is a little intimidating. I personally have never climbed anything that required a harness or belayer, and after this thread, it doesn't sound too appealing, unless I'm climbing where there is absolutely nobody else. I would like to ask all the more experienced climbers to be patient with us wet-behind-the ears newbies. I totally agree with the whole annoyance with assholes and inconsiderate idjets, but if we do something that seems that way, we probably just don't know any better. More experienced climbers have the power to help show us new folks "the light" and give us good climbing manners, as Alpinfox said, by politely and patiently making requests to clean our gear and offering advice. That, or you pro climbers can totally turn new people off of climbing forever by impatiently waiting to warm up on some 5.8 route or a v3 while we are trying to acheive something that is, to us at least, a huge milestone and great accomplishment. Nothing sucks the joy and fun out of conquering a new problem quite like some pompous rock jock getting in a tizzy because you took too long, or grumbling about damned newbies under their breath as you pass (both have happened to me more often than you would think in the gym where I boulder). I understand that the old hands get frustrated at people trying to climb out of their league, but if we never try to do something that we can't yet, how do we know where our limit is? We may not know a fraction as much as you, and may not be able to climb v8 like you, but we deserve a chance to try. Anywho, I'll hop off of my soapbox. Thanks to all those climbers that remember what its like to be an inexperienced climber being bullied away from what they really want to climb by those elitists that clearly think they deserve the rock more. Your patience with my kind is greatly appreciated. end of preaching... Quote
ketch Posted July 9, 2004 Posted July 9, 2004 Dukie, thanks for the note. I agree with what you and Afox have said. Having climbed for a while it is nice to get away from the pepes. I think the thread has drifted a bit. Hopefully you (or whatever newbie) is going out with a more experianced person. I would think it's their part to see that you have a good experience some of which is staying out of trouble. That is the point of my previous post. I don't think that the newbies deserve any crap either way. If I take someone out to a place that I know they will be a problem it is my bad and I (kinda) deserve whatever I get. If I take you to a newbie spot or don't plug things up I don't deserve it either. Quote
Dru Posted July 9, 2004 Posted July 9, 2004 I think most ppl that posted to this thread were supportive of newies getting out and climbing stuff and less supportive of crag police catbirdseat (himself freshly out of newbiehood) for suggesting newbies be quarantined at certain bumbly crags. Quote
Pencil_Pusher Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 ...catbirdseat for suggesting newbies be quarantined at certain bumbly crags. I missed that, Dru. Where was it CBS said that? My only suggestion is there are multiple lines up these easy routes; the Tooth, Ingalls, Castle Rock, and R&D come to mind. So you don't necessarily have to wait in line. Quote
Dru Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 right here take a beginner to one of the roadside crags first and teach him/her to clean first. Quote
Pencil_Pusher Posted July 10, 2004 Posted July 10, 2004 that is suggesting newbies be quarantined at certain bumbly crags? im not seeing that logic. dru, i bet if a girl started this thread, versus cbs, your outlook would be different on this subject. Quote
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