crevasse rescue practice

[wally]

I am wanting to practice some team crevasse rescue but live couple hundred miles away from ice. we tried prusiking on a swing set but that is about all we could do there. where should we practice? are rock walls any good for this?

[layton]

any bridges nearby? I-90 would be a good simulation of not wanting to fuck up.

 

a rock wall would work if there's a tree about 15 yards back from the top.

[MisterMo]

any bridges nearby? I-90 would be a good simulation of not wanting to fuck up.

 

a rock wall would work if there's a tree about 15 yards back from the top.

To which I would add:

1)Pick a cold shitty day

2)Make sure gunk of some sort falls on you from above

3)Maybe have somebody hose you down with cold water during...

4)Make sure you do it with your pack on

 

There's more to being in and getting out of crevasses than the vertical distance

[Dru]

All the times I practiced crevasse rescue in student rec centres, abandoned lecture halls, back alleys, and on the balcony of Keiths Hut I was never able to actually understand what I was doing. But when I went aid climbing I was like "Holy shit1 This Z-pulley really works when you are hauling! These ascenders are way better than prussiks!"

 

So I'd say forget about the crevasse simulator and just go do a 2-pitch aid climb. The fundamentals are the same and it will be more fun.

[wally]

Alright, we'll get some buckets of freezing water to dump on eachother then start chucking rocks down. that sounds like loads of fun! I get the picture though

[pindude]

Wally,

In Spokane you can go to Minne, and as you're facing the Main Wall from below, set up a TR anchor just to the right of Smoky Overhang: it's a nice overhang where you can get lots of Prusik practice in. The bolts above this line were put in for setting up TR Prusik anchors at least as much as for climbing.

 

As far as a pulley system, there's enough random trees on top of either the Main or Secondary faces to set up Z, C, or Z x C systems to your heart's content, or take Dru's advice and climb/aid up and set up an anchor halfway up one the of classic crack climbs like Diagonal, Dihedral, Bat Crack, or Don Quixote.

[MisterMo]

Think too about those moments between when you first get that sinking feeling and when you proceed to get out of the crevasse. Is your self arrest up to snuff? A lot of clubs & classes practice team self arrest in early season when snow is soft. It's an entirely different matter later in the season when hard conditions abound. Not to be horribly gloomy but crevasse rescue gets complicated when your whole party is in one.

[wally]

Were going to minne on sunday afternoon, thanks for the info. As far as self arrest, I have practiced alot, but what does it feel like when the guy tied with you unexpectedly falls and out weighs you by 50lbs? Are you catapulted thru the air to your demise? or does all that practice give you a chance

[ketch]

Your not catapulted to your demise, but, when someone else is on the other end of the rope you realize your not in kansas anymore.

It takes a few more people and the real deal but a few rounds of two tied up and one "falls" the other catches is good. Get a few others, set up a bomber anchor and have the others keep your ass from goin all the way in.

 

This is best done with a larger group sometime with a few experienced folks in the party. To give you some ideas as to the difference Sobo did some tests that he posted a while back. I don't remember the thread but he could relate them to you.

[ketch]

One other thing, and you can practice this close to home. It's not a bad idea to just stuff a pack with 40 lbs or so put on a harness and tie yourself off to an overhead anchored rope. then just fall off some boxes or something (with the slack out of the rope ) Crevasses are a lot more pleasant if you can get out of your pack, into prussicks, and standing comfortably upright while you wait on your team to rescue you.

[wally]

I would also like to see how hard it would be on a two person team to stay in self arrest, set up an anchor and attempt to haul out your partner. easy as pie right?

[ketch]

Oh yeah, You should always keep your gear packaged neatly in your pack so that it doesn't get dirty or wet

Not that they are always right, but I think FOH says that sometimes it is easier for the one just to stay in arrest and have the other climb out themself.

[griz]

One thing you'll find the need for is to have all of your anchors,slings,ascenders,pulleys perfectly arranged so you can get to them with one hand. I guarrantee after a day of rescue practice for a 2 person team you will be pretty sobered up to it's risks,limitations and the dire reality of the situation if the other climber can't get himself out.

I would do your first practice on a lower angle slope where the 'fallen climber' can take his weight off when you realize you fucked up or need to rearrange your gear or maybe brain farted how to rig the system properly. no worries that way. have fun!

[sobo]

...This is best done with a larger group sometime with a few experienced folks in the party. To give you some ideas as to the difference Sobo did some tests that he posted a while back. I don't remember the thread but he could relate them to you.

 

Did someone call me?

 

wally,

 

Here is the "testing" thread to which ketch referred above. My results are about nine or ten posts down on the first page.

[dlofgren]

Wally,

 

Sobo's post is really good. Realistic.

 

You also asked about 2-man team rescue:

1. Read Andy's Selter's "Glacier Travel & Crevasse Rescue", starting at page 110. BTW, he suggests a prussic, you can also use a Bachmann; he suggests a fluke, I like a picket. Either way, it's a challenge, and practice is essential.

 

2. Griz is right also - practice and more practice will help, and will open your eyes to the limitations of a 2-person team and make you more careful. But it will also give you confidence in what you CAN do.

[MisterMo]

Were going to minne on sunday afternoon, thanks for the info. As far as self arrest, I have practiced alot, but what does it feel like when the guy tied with you unexpectedly falls and out weighs you by 50lbs? Are you catapulted thru the air to your demise? or does all that practice give you a chance

 

You get a chance; the quickness arrived at thru practice pays off. Hard snow & crampons necessitate being very quick; you have little chance of stopping once you gain some speed. Fortunately, at least in the Cascades, the number of truly hidden crevasses diminishes as the season wears on & conditions get harder.

If there are only two of you & one goes in a hole things could get pretty interesting if they cannot just straightforwardly self-extract.

Loosely on the topic of crevasse rescue...check out David Roberts' "Deborah, A Wilderness Narrative" if you haven't already. Awesome trip, great reading, and crevasses from hell....

[wally]

thanks for the information. very informative, sounds like you became the wedgy king that day. were going to get to rainier alittle early and spend an extra day getting a feel for the actual thing, any good crevasses on or near the turtle to practice in?

[sobo]

Sounds like you're headed up the Kautz or mebbe Feuher's Finger, yes...?

 

If you're staying at Turtle Rocks, you'll cross the lower Nisqually on your way to the ramp/gulley that leads up towards the toe of the Wilson. The lower Nisqually is the standard crevasse rescue practice area at MRNP. Start out early, and pick a slot on your way to the Turtle and have at it. Finish up the day by ascending ~4k feet to your bivy site at Turtle Rocks.

 

Or, if you think that might be too tiring at the end of a hard day of crevasse practice, you could probably also find a decent slot on the Wilson, a bit closer to your intended campsite.

 

Or, since you said you've got an extra day, hike out to the lower Nisqually, practice, then head back to Paradise for and and a good night's sleep, and start your climb the next day. Now that's what I'd do.

 

Whatever you do, be safe, learn something, and by all means have fun.

[wally]

the kautz is the plan, i like the idea of kickin it at paradise after practicing all day. Have to see what my partners think. thanks for all the help. went to minne today and had alot of fun. took freedom from the hills with me and thanks to the good information I made it back alive