Ice Tools...

[Tyler]

So, I'm recovering from knee surgery, and I am plotting my return to climbing - which will hopefully include some ice.

 

I've ice climbed once before - very easy alpine ice with CM Pulsars. But now that one of my knees has been fixed, I'm hoping to do some trips this winter. I won't be doing any mixed or hard WI. I'm hoping to start out on some easy WI and AI. We'll see where it goes from there.

 

So, I'm looking at purchasing some new or used equipment. I'm leaning towards trying to get a pair of used Axars ...or possibly a pair of Grivel Alp Wings if the price is right. Here are my thoughts - let me know if I am way off or if this sounds good.

 

Pair of used Axars - I've swung these at a shop before they were discontinued, and they seemed great. The head would not be too comfortable on the hands for extended use while plunging. Should be able to find a used set reasonably priced.

 

Grivel Alp Wing - I swung a set in the shop - they weren't too bad, but they did not have as nice of a swing as the Quarks (which are way more than I need, but they have a great swing). Shaft should plunge easily, head should be a litte more comfortable than the Axars when plunging. No pinky guard though...

 

CM Quasars - I've seen some used sets online, but my understanding is that they're pretty heavy and good for pounding hard ice. They obviously don't plunge well because of the handle. Are these worthy of consideration? There is a used set that seems reasonably priced online.

 

BD Rage or used BD Black Prophets w/ curved shaft - I've never seen these at a shop or swung these before. If somebody in Eugene has a set, I wouldn't mind taking a swing.

 

CM Aztars - they have a nice swing, but I don't like that the hammers and adzes are all one piece in the unlikely chance that they broke - time to buy a new tool. Plus, the angle of the adze seems like it would be hard to use.

 

Crampons: Leaning towards a pair of Grivel G14's or a pair of CM Sarkens. The G14's can switch to a mono point which seems nice, but the front points on the Sarkens are fixed.

 

There's a pair of used CM Blackice crampons available online - has anyone had good/bad experience with these crampons - It seems like these would be suitable for easier climbing.

[fear]

Any modern tool will be fine for you. Honestly, the tools aren't going to hold you back for awhile and it'll take awhile to learn what you like. So get something you can get parts for easily and locally. Usually that means BD or CM tools/crampons. Only buy tools you can try. Make sure the grip feels good to you wearing gloves and that you like the swing/weight.

 

Personally I love CM Quarks and BD sabreteeth for WI up to 4 or so and any alpine stuff I'd ever do. I was leading WI4 this year in leather Makalu's with sabreteeth. But it's a personal thing. Don't fall for the "shaft won't plunge" BS for curved tools in the mountains. The more curved the shaft though the harder it is to drive pins and such with the hammer. No big deal but something to keep in mind if that'll be an issue for you.

 

For a beginner with crampons the most important thing is fit. If one pops off, you're screwed. Adjustable rake, mono, dual, staggered points all won't mean dick if it's dangling off your ankle 25 feet over your last screw. So make sure whatever you get fits nice and tight with your intended boots. And always get the anti-balling plates.

 

Take it slow..... and don't fall...

 

-Fear

[boatskiclimbsail]

I agree, tools and crampons should fit and be comfortable no matter what your skill level. The good old favorite for axes is the BD Black Prophet. They made a boatload of these in the 90s and they're everywhere for cheap and nearly indestructable. Other than that, give your friends gear a try, demo some tools, and find what you like. Good tools cost money, so don't go into it with cost as an objective. When you find the perfect set of tools you won't mind saving for them.

 

Beginner crampons should fit securely and be durable. You'll figure out what you like and don't like about them and then buy a pair you really like. I know it should be obvious, but make sure your boots fit well also. It'll make a world of difference. Good luck!

[tomtom]

I started WI climbing this past year with a pair of Grivel Alp Wings with the Easy-G leashes and G-12 crampons with strap-on (New Classic) bindings on stiff boots (Solomon SM Lites or Koflach Verticals). By the end of the season I was leading WI 3/4 and followed a few WI 5 pitches. I never felt that my selection of gear was holding me back.

 

YMMV.

[Tyler]

Thanks for the help so far. I have someone that could probably act as a "mentor" on some trips. Yes, this is serious shit, and I'm trying to approach it with some humility... Knowing I'm going to have to take it slow and get a lot of experience...

 

I may end up going with some Grivel Alp Wings - haven't heard anything specific, but does anyone have any rants or raves?

 

I had a pair of Grivel G12 crampomatics, but I did not feel like they were the best for front pointing. Plus, I think I like the newmatic bindings a little better even though any boots I use them on would have significant welts.

 

Thanks!

[PaulB]

These days, just about any set of ice tools will be adequate for someone new to the sport. Find a cheap used pair that will let you get out climbing. Borrow different tools whenever you get the chance, and eventually you'll find a pair that just "feel right". If you're lucky they'll be the pair you bought, but more likely you'll be wanting something else after your first or second season.

[Don_Serl]

tyler,

 

on the one hand, ANY tool can be used in almost any situation, and usually it is not the TOOL that is the limitation, it's the experience/technique.

on the other hand, better tools clearly allow better, faster development of more-honed technique.

so, buy "good stuff" - you won't regret it!

 

i won't comment about axes/hammers, but i'll offer that my personal favorite crampons are the G-14s with the cramp-o-matic binding. to me, the key function of the binding is to hold the crampon in precise position relative to the boot, and the cramp-o-matic (bail-in-welt) binding does a better job of this than "over-the-toe" style front attachments. i "reshaped" the front bails slightly (as necessary) with a vice and pliers so they fit exactly to the boot welts, again in the interest of tight fit. how can you be accurate with your crampon foot-work otherwise?

 

i run them with monos for waterfalls in the winter and dbl points for alpine the rest of the year. if you choose a different crampon, avoid thin-profile vertical points for the alpine, or you'll be scaring the shit out of yourself when the points start "gliding" thru 50º crisp neve. except for pure waterfall use, choose flat fronts instead of verticals, except for systems like the G-14s which have some "width" to the points.

 

the key disadvantage of the G-14s is weight - they are heavier than most of the alternatives, which is especially a consideration for mountaineering use - but weight indicates "toughness" too, and they seem most unlikely to fail in any way.

 

and FOR SURE use anti-bots in the mtns. it's way too easy to lose footing and take a long slide without them. people get killed every year this way. anti-bots are IMHO one of the greatest contributors to better safety in the mtns in the past decade!

 

enjoy, cheers,

[Chad_A]

They may be a bit heavy, but I've climbed WI4 in them, and done basic glacier climbs in them, as well. My other crampons are now relegated to my g/f and others who need to borrow a spare pair. I do everything in the Grivels.