Dr_Crash Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Right now I am using a 65 cm Grivel whatever (black shaft, traditional spike) loaned to me. If I need to return it (for example to climb with the person who lent it to me) I'd like to buy one of these two. I am looking for feedback from owners of both, and ideally someone who's tried both axes. The Raven Pro is 1.5 oz lighter, and has a real spike, which I like (though I don't know if it really is that much better than the cut shaft for glissading and getting purchase on ice, but I can imagine it is). The short head (height-wise) worries me, though I am not qualified to determine whether it is worse than the Grivel head or not. it is stainless steel, don't know if it makes a difference. The Grivel's head looks better to me (see disclaimer about me having no qualifications above) but I've read the teeth on the pick are too close to the shaft to do a boot-ax belay without damaging the rope (anybody can confirm this?). It's a bit heavier which feels nice swinging the ice. The weight may be a small liability when ski mountaineering, my main occupation so far, where the ax stays on my back most of the time. I am starting to climb though. After buying a 5.5 lbs 55 liter pack and skinning up a lot with it, I am also starting to believe in "lighter is better". Which one do you like best, or what do you like / dislike about one of these? Thanks, drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I use the Raven Pro. I've used the Air Tech in the past, and while both axes compared similarly in arresting capability, the Raven Pro is far more comfortable to hold onto, which was the deciding factor in my purchase. It has performed superbly in every aspect of its intended use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genepires Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 If you absolutely must carry the axe in the "self arrest" grip then get the raven. It is made to be comfortable in that grip which most others aren't. If you want to do more technical mountains in the future, get the air tech. The heavier head will make better sticks. What is the "short head" you speak of? As far as using the axe for boot-axe belays, the teeth can be of a concern but most people I know, including lots of mountian guides, never use the boot axe. In fact, I can't name a single person who has used it recently. I am sure there are some out there who are believers in the boot axe, but a simple seated hip belay is much stronger and quicker to create. adding the axe as a backup to the seated stance improves it significantly and the teeth don't matter then. Failure in the boot axe belay leaves you in a very desperate position with lots of slack in the rope. (watching people belay others across sketchy snow bridges with boot-axes makes me cringe and in my opinion is a good way to kill your partner) You shouldn't be expected to hold large weights with the boot axe, so I doubt that the teeth should be a big concern for cutting the ropes. But if you expect to do boot-axe belays, get a longer shaft for strength. Boot axes were common when everyone carried 70cm or bigger monster axes. With all that said, I am a big fan of grivel, so they get my vote if that matters. Which it doesn't. have fun! gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashw_justin Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Failure in the boot axe belay leaves you in a very desperate position with lots of slack in the rope. (watching people belay others across sketchy snow bridges with boot-axes makes me cringe and in my opinion is a good way to kill your partner) And let's not forget that the belayer is tied to other end!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I have used both...Raven wins hands down. And considering its cheaper, is there even a question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Crash Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 By "shorter" head I meant that if you look at both axes from the side, the Raven head isn't as tall as the Air Tech Racing, and the teeth aren't as pronounced. Again, I can't tell if that matters or not. I guess I'll carry in self-arrest grip when conditions will warrant it, yes. What did you mean by "absolutely must carry in self-arrest grip?" That you'd carry in regular grip and switch to self-arrest as you fall, yourself? Rodchester, care to elaborate about the superiority of the Raven Pro? And re: price, I can get the Grivel cheaper than the BD through a friend, so no worries here (also $20 of difference for a tool I'll trust my life to and will use a long time isn't a factor either). drC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Both are good axes and each performs well, for general mountaineering. Again, for general mountaineering, the Ravel Pro's head / grip is far superior in that it carries in comfort unlike any other ice axe. It is roughly the same weight...so what is the advantage of the Grivel? None. I've used both and love the Raven. You can buy my Grivel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancho_Villa Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Used both LOVE the Raven Pro. That is a sweet axe and BD's customers service is top notch. Super comfortable grip on it too. The axe has a good weight for sticking it. By the way I had to use the Raven to self arrest on a nasty exposure (almost crapped myself). That thing bit into HARD ice like there was no tommorow. So I guess you can say I owe my life to the Raven Pro. Incredible axe, more good stuff from BD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Don't know if this might change anyone's mind, but you can get the air tech for $70 here. http://www.climbhigh.com/specials.cgi?prodid=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 The metal in the Grivel head is stronger than the BD so they can make it thinner, meaning it will displace less ice which translates to better sticks. I prefer having the teeth go all the way to the shaft when I use it as a tool, but right now I have tape covering the part where my hand is to make it comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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