Views on Iraq from Military Related Sources

[Stonehead]

Video of interview with Lt. Gen. William Odom, a retired general and former member of the National Security Council who is now at the Hudson Institute, a conservative thinktank. He served as director of the National Security Agency under President Reagan.

 

Transcript of interview here,

 

Interesting... (excerpt): AMY GOODMAN: John Kerry has called for an increase of troops in Iraq-you’re calling for the opposite.

 

LT. GEN. WILLIAM ODOM: Well if we want to prevail there in the sense of restoring the insurgency and bringing some sort of order in governing the country, he’s absolutely right. We went in with far too few troops. In World War II in Germany, we had a ration for one U.S. soldier, or one allied soldier for every twenty inhabitants. The ratio in Iraq is about one for a hundred and sixty. So the numbers are very much against you there. The marines went in and started a fire fight which they didn’t have to start in Fallujah which kicked off a conflict there which they were very much outnumbered. The 82nd airborne tried to explain that to them, and they couldn't be told. They had their own ideas how they were going to pacify. The result has been that they are now facing a hard truth. They just had to agree not to go in and put down this group that was causing the trouble. And if you are going to do that, you are going to have to have a lot more troops, and what I'm suggesting is continuing to do that is -- promises little or no positive outcome in the near term. Promises much larger-requirement for much larger commitments later on. Therefore its not in the U.S. interests. But, if you are going to do that Kerry is absolutely right.

 

Strategic Studies Institute, War College

The report, by military strategist and War College visiting professor Jeffrey Record, notes that the original purpose of the war on terrorism mushroomed from a search for justice for the thousands of Americans killed in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks “into something far too ambitious and completely unrealistic.”

[Ratboy]

Here's another military view of what's going on over there. Hackworth tells it like it is.

[gotterdamerung]

Hackworth was at one time the most highly decorated military veteran on active duty. He was a fairly high level whistle blower ( 06 Colonel ) who went public condeming the US Military effort in Vietnam as becoming mired down and fruitless. For that I applaud him. For his efforts he was forced into retirement by General Westmoreland. Since then Hackworth has made a living off of opinionated military speculation. Most of his bitches focus harshly on military command and most of them are pretty right on. He is a warrior in the truest sense of the word. However, he has little access to sources of viable interest who will speak to him. As far as I know he is the highest decorated military veteran still alive today. He expatriated to Australia a few years ago.

 

I do agree that we went into Iraq with far fewer troops then we initially needed to get the job done. We should have come in with about 300,000 in order to not only complete the military mission at hand, but more importantly, to have a solid footprint to prevent the looting that occurred here, and disarm the population. I have flown over several Iraqi airbases that are still littered with bunkers containing munitions of the type that can be easily be converted to make I.E.D.'s and were unguarded. It took a long time to find Saddam and other high level Baath party leaders because we did not have enough troops to flood the countryside, and we certainly did not have nearly enough to prevent infiltrators from entering the country illegally via the largely unguarded borders. We still don't, and the increasingly suspect Iraqi police and military forces are certainly not meeting the challenge in front of them.

 

At this point however, it does not seem prudent to bring more troops into the country in large numbers because we are supposed to be returning this country to sovereign rule and bringing more troops in gives the perception that we are doing exactly the opposite. And also because we probably don't have them to give. We still have other missions abroad that remain a priority for our security. The plan that the previous chairman of the joint chiefs proposed was more realistic, but was discarded by arrogant politicians who have never been in combat, and never had to spend time on the ground getting shelled. From the perspective that the conventional war is over it would be tactically unsound to continue to bring conventional troops into theatre. Rather we should be looking at more Special Ops troops replete with capable security elements (armored infantry ) and plenty of close air support in the form of helicopter gunships, medevac, and fast movers to do the job. The insurgency is relatively small and they are not very capable fighters. They are taking casualties at the rate of about 60 to 1 in Fallujah and Najaf against Big Army type units and Marine infantry. They suck to be honest, and one for one the average marine grunt is head and shoulders above these ass clowns. Most of the casualties are occurring during routine military police patrols ( a job the Iraqis should be doing ) or during convoy operations moving supplies into country. Move some of the infantry units into a convoy protection aspect and more night patrols to comb the highways for ass clowns setting I.E.D.'s and the tables will turn. But hey, what do I know? I've only been doing this thing my whole life.

[gotterdamerung]

[lummox]

and the sprayers are gay. stfu.

 

 

there is more than one way to view us efforts in iraq. this image is either 1) a sick reminder of abuse of iraqi citizens or 2) a depiction of how us troops are kickin ass for freedom. you decide:

[gotterdamerung]

I'll tell you what. I'll come to pub club when I get back and you can try and make me stfu. How does that grab ya? Fuck off.

[RobBob]

Now Gd's makin' me nostalgic for the old cc.com days. Somebody needs to find that old thread where caveman and somebody were going to have a bareknuckles match, and sisu was gonna officiate.

[lummox]

i think this is where i chime in with 'gargle butt gravy asseyes '

[RobBob]

Just to make it a bona fide dogpile, you should also drop brown coils on him.

[lummox]

dammit. i miss the old sprayers.

fuk i am gettin misty. now i need a little alone time.

[markinore]

GD, I appreciate your perspective, as always. So what do you think should be done next? I understand your premises to be that politicians fucked up from the beginning by not sending enough troops to do the job right, and sending more troops now isn't practical (from a political standpoint, both in the U.S. and Iraq). I agree. Can you suggest some sort of a way out? As much as I opposed starting this war, I am concerned that the quickest way out for us would inevitably result in civil war. This could be a situation that is worse for the average Iraqi than either Saddam or U.S. occupation.

[gotterdamerung]

i think this is where i chime in with 'gargle butt gravy asseyes '

 

Exactly!

[gotterdamerung]

GD, I appreciate your perspective, as always. So what do you think should be done next? I understand your premises to be that politicians fucked up from the beginning by not sending enough troops to do the job right, and sending more troops now isn't practical (from a political standpoint, both in the U.S. and Iraq). I agree. Can you suggest some sort of a way out? As much as I opposed starting this war, I am concerned that the quickest way out for us would inevitably result in civil war. This could be a situation that is worse for the average Iraqi than either Saddam or U.S. occupation.

 

The best way out is to get the oil production flowing. This is Iraq's meat and potatoes. This single industry has the potential to employ hundreds of thousands and bring prosperity to the whole nation. I sense that we have stayed out of the oil for the time being to avoid the much warranted suspicion that this was our underlying motivation from the beginning. That, and the fact the infrastructure to get the production up was damaged. The security issues are of course a concern, but there are top notch security firms ramped up to aid the effort. They are in the process now of recruiting literally thousands to provide the protection needed. Once prosperity is in sight or the tangible benefits it will bring are realized the Iraqi people will begin to police themselves and restore order.

 

I just now came from meeting several old Iraqi friends of mine who had much good to tell me about the Iraqi people and their perceptions of such major issues as Sadr, and the Abu Gharaib situation. They loudly and vehemently denounced Sadr as an usurper and a lunatic who has no business creating the tensions he is. Furthermore, they felt sickened by the Al Qaeda video where Nick Berg was brutally murdered, offering condolences and vowing to assist in any way possible to remove these terrorists from their soil. They hate them as much as we do. We touched on the Abu Gharaib situation and they were largely indifferent to what the media has portrayed in such a negative light. Their overall response was that it was the acts of a few depraved individuals and that it no way reflected on the experiences they have had with Coalition troops or civilians. Here, 10,000 miles from home are people that honestly appreciate the efforts being undertaken on their behalf and have only praise for the United States of America. It is good to hear. It is good to be valued when so many of our own people have either indifference or disdain for something they really can't grasp.

[markinore]

The best way out is to get the oil production flowing. This is Iraq's meat and potatoes. This single industry has the potential to employ hundreds of thousands and bring prosperity to the whole nation.

 

Perhaps you're right to focus on economic development. Too much of the administration's focus has been on the trappings of democracy, e.g., elections, without due regard for the historical absence of the traditions of democracy in that country.

 

With respect to development of the oil industry and its infrastructure, do you think this is possible without a massive U.S. military presence for five to ten years? Even if regular military personnel were partly or completely replaced by private contractors, would that be fundamentally different--especially to the fundamentalists?

[willstrickland]

To be a little more accurate, alot of the focus outside of general security and stability, preparing for a new govt, training police, etc has been on building or rebuilding infrastructure. There are several civilian co-workers of mine (Army Corp of Enigneers) who are in Iraq right now working on large infrastructure projects. Oil production is only one part of that infrastructure and from my understanding the oil infra was largely intact. Power, water, and communications are vital and ongoing projects.

[lummox]

I just now came from meeting several old Iraqi friends of mine who had much good to tell me about the Iraqi people and their perceptions of such major issues as Sadr, and the Abu Gharaib situation.

 

so were these 'iraqi friends' hooded and naked while they told you 'much good'?

just fuking with you g. you are too easy not to.

[willstrickland]

This today from a co-worker (I have edited out some specifics for privacy sake):

 

 

I hate doing e-blast messages like this, but most of you have asked for information on my deployment overseas...

 

I received my travel orders today. The itinerary has me jetting to XXXXX Saturday night (5/15). I should return to Anchorage on Sept. 27th (a few pounds lighter and alot darker-skinned). I will be stationed at Baghdad; TDY as a Project Engineer for CEGRC; in theater deployment for 120 days.

 

I should be able to check this e-mail address, but I will attempt to get my direct line/e-mail/snail mail address to everyone once I know it. XXXX has asked for pictures of me in my desert camo fatigues; XXXX told me to keep a journal; and XXXXX said take lots of photos (not going anywhere near the prison). Work schedule was supposed to be reduced to six 10-hour days, but the latest word on that says, "nah!" More like seven 14-hour days a week... Oh well, that just means more overtime.

 

I spoke with XXXX yesterday in Basra, Iraq. He said, "Hi, to everyone." And he told me to keep my head down. We may be able to hook-up with each other in Kuwait.

 

The most frequently asked question about my deployment is "What the hell were you thinking?" My simple response to this complex question is "To date, the only mark that I have left in this world is in my underpants. So, I want to try something else!" Just in case I don't get the chance later, I wanted to say thanks for all the memories and well wishes!!!

[Ratboy]

I appreciate your perspective as well, gotterdamerung. At least when you're not calling people 'towelheads'.

 

I have to say, everything you've said in this thread so far makes sense.