fenderfour Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Here's an interesting thought - I was looking through the Petzl website and I noticed the via ferrata lanyards. These are designed to reduce the impact force on the climber because it is possible to have a fall that is greater than factor 2 while climbing via ferrata routes due to the steel cables used in securing the routes. Couldn't these lanyards be used in place of screamers while climbing? Wouldn't it be possible to tie into a via ferrata lanyard and then into the rope to reduce impact loads on the pro? Hell, couldn't you just put a screamer between you and the rope? -discuss- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodchester Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Set up video camera, give it a try, take whipper, put footage on the web. The End. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 It depends on the activation force. A screamer is supposed to activate at a few hundred pounds, so that it starts to rip before the gear gets seriously loaded. For Via Ferrata use the assumption is that the "gear" namely the steel cable and its attachement point will never fail but your body might. In which case the activation force may be much higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 they are pretty heavy and bulky. go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Haven't seen it. Would anything hit you in the face as it unzipped (knots & carabiners)? Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timcb Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I don't know about using the via ferrata lanyard (I believe it could be bulky, heavy, and present the possibility for getting whacked in the face), but the idea of tieing in through a screamer is initially interesting. But then, remembering what I could of physics and pulley diagrams, I believe that the force received at the harnesses of both belayer and leader are only half of the force on the top piece that catches the fall. Therefore, the screamer is much more effective (likely to activate and absorb energy) if placed at the pro, rather than at the harness. For that matter, it would be just as effective between your belayer's harness and belay device as it would be on the climbers harness (though the effect of the screamer tearing while your belayer catches a whipper could be kind of startling and in-your-face). But other than these considerations, I don't really see why not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken4ord Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 If it was me I think I would just solo the damn things. If I got tired and needed a rest then just clip in, but from what I have seen from pictures, I would not want to fall even with one of those fancy Petzl lanyards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtngrrrl Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Yeah, I keep thinking I could use my VF stuff for something when aid climbing, but I don't think they're very practical in the long run. Plus, they don't start ripping the way a Screamer would. The two I have decrease force through friction, not ripping stitches. They're pretty long, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 Now that I have had time to mull it over, my idea isn't really to use the VF lanyard, but something like it or a screamer to reduce the shock load on pro. There would be no need to carry 4 or 5 screamers when ice climbing, you would just have one "screameresque" device between you and the rope to reduce the impact force. I just thought that the friction device on a VF lanyard would be nice as it is reusable. From what Tim said, the personal screamer would have to activate at roughly half the kN of a normal screamer to be effective. Does anybody know someone to talk to at Yates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 lanyard reduces force on the entire system because there is no belayer. your biner is at one end and you at the other. thats how you can generate a factor-5 fall, falling 5m between rungs on a 1m length of leash. now a screamer tied into the end of the rope isnt going to do jack squat to reduce forces on the rope system or the pro. just on you. you would fall, shock load the pro, then the screamer would rip and leave you hanging 2 feet lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 I'm not trolling here, just trying to understand. I don't think that the screamer would be quite so effective on me as it would be on the top piece of pro, but the tearing of the screamer would definitely absorb some of the shockload on the top piece. After all, it is my mass that is generating the force on the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I think you're right- but it would only reduce the impact force on the top piece by half. So, if the screamer reduces the load by 2Kn, the reduction in impact force on the top piece is only 1Kn. Contact yates directly - they're really good about responding to techy questions. I think he's a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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