sketchy belay--off the anchor or harness?

[minx]

for the sake of argument i was belaying my partner up so it was in essence a TR situation. i have used a directional if my anchor was good and i thought it would make rope handling easier. in this case, rope management wasn't as high on my list as trying to find a fourth piece. i'm a tad conservative and prefer a 4piece anchor if it's reasonable.

[whirlwind]

btw there are some good route in which the crux is right off the belay, exasporator for instance

[chucK]

I think you only wanna use a directional when bringing up a second if

 

1) you are very confident the directional is strong enough to hold both you and your partner in a toprope fall

 

and

 

2) if you have a feeling that the second is gonna be doing a lot of hanging on the rope.

 

 

Although this is not really to the point since if we had 1) we wouldn't have a sketchy belay.

[Dru]

i like to take them off belay in the middle of the crux and yell out some motivational phrase like "See ya in hell dirtbag" or "Suck it up princess" or even "If you die here, I win!". then it doesn't matter what the gear is like

[whirlwind]

dam dru...

#2 is the only reason i do it

[dylan_taylor]

btw there are some good route in which the crux is right off the belay, exasporator for instance

 

Fortunately, Exasporater has a bomber belay anchor. But this is a good point. What about routes where you build a sketchy anchor, bring your partner up on it, and then they have to lead the next pitch, where the crux is directly above your anchor? Plenty of examples on ice, on desert sandstone, and on choss anywhere else. People debate over whether the leader should clip the highest piece or the powerpoint of the anchor as they begin the lead. The belayer is often tied very close to the power point, so this doesn't diminish the fall factor that much. Clipping the highest piece in the anchor minutely decreases the fall factor for the first few feet, but if it is runout, then the fall factor approaches (but never quite reaches) 2. But of course all the load goes on just one part of the anchor if the leader whips, and if your anchor is questionable... On the other hand, if the leader doesn't clip a piece, and falls, the fall factor will initially be higher because they are falling on the belayer direclty. As they get higher, the fall factor stays at 2 until the first piece is clipped. But at least the load is distributed across the entire anchor if the leader whips.

What my partners and i have done when sketchy cruxy climbing is mandated above a sketchy belay: equalize every piece of the belay as you would normally (with cordalette, etc...). Clip a biner or draw to the power point. The leader clips this as their first piece of pro. The belayer ties in with a bunch more slack, as much as you possibly feel comfortable with. I've had a belayer hanging 20 or more feet below the anchor before - and of course it can get inconvienient when they have to follow. Now, with the belayer hanging well below the anchor, the leader can clip the anchor as their first piece of pro, and if they fall right off the belay, the fall factor is vastly diminished. If you have to belay off of micro cams, RP's, bad rock, or screws in slush, this might increase your margin of safety.

 

Regarding belaying off of harness or anchor when bringing up the second on a sketchy anchor. I think my old copy of Freedom of the Hills mentioned "Anchor, Position, and Friction"? You have to have friction. But if you have good anchor, you don't need position (i.e. hanging belay). If you have good position, you don't need anchor (i.e. Bomber stance with legs braced behind something).