St. Helens Climbing Fees: views of a ranger

[aggressivepedestrian]

This weekend I had an interesting encounter with two rangers on the Worm Flows route on Mt. St. Helens. I was taking a couple of non-climbing friends out for their first alpine experience. Since I am opposed to the $15 climbing fee the FS charges, we didn't have permits.

 

Well, hiking up the route, we came upon a couple of guys standing by their tent. Because of the glare, I couldn't even tell they were rangers. As we passed, I made small talk, when one of them asked "Do you guys have your permits?" Looking close, I saw the green uniforms. Busted.

 

One of them wanted nothing more than to get our money, but he said he could take our names and addresses, and we could climb, but we would have to get our permits at Jacks on the way home. This is a little interesting, because none of us had ID. He pretty much had to take our word that we were who we said we were.

 

As he was taking my companions names, I struck up a conversation with the other ranger. Unlike his partner, this second ranger was pretty cool. I asked him what would happen if I decided not to pay. He said I shouldn't pay if I felt strongly about it. He said he wished more people would fight it. Clearly, he just wants to be a ranger, not a fee collecting, ticket-writing pain in the ass.

 

When I asked him (rhetorically) how much they charged snowmobilers; he said nothing, and that it really rubbed him the wrong way. But he said that when he attends meetings about things (as a like fee demo and climbing fees, there are NEVER any climbers or hikers there, but the motorheads are out in force. He said there are often 150 snowmobilers at meetings, but there are usually just one or two climbers.

 

I had a long climb ahead to decide whether or not I'd pick up the permit at Jacks. My non-climbing buddies wanted nothing to do with a protest, and, in the end, I wimped out and plunked down the fiteen bucks. Hell, who am I to complain about fees? I'm just one of the tens of thousands of northwest climbers who hasn't attended any meetings about fees.

[To_The_Top]

Yah I saw some protests in the climbers signout, and totally agree that the sleds should pay a fee too. We camped out of the festival camping area on sat night and we got buzzed by a sled at 11:30pm, talk about a surprise. I wish that if we paid they should too. Luckily no 2 stroke smoke the next day, but damn, even a mile away they annoy. I think that all should enjoy the backcountry them included, but we all have to support the fees or none at all. It was funny in the morning that the local sledders couldnt believe that we were going for the top by hiking up and skiing down in dresses. It was funner than heck. I would like to write someone who cares, like the state legistlators or whoever. I cant drive down there to attend a meeting, but would write the house or Congress. I even talked to the Sheriff who was enforcing some that where going up on sleds, and they thought that it was unfair. Write Congress! In fairness they helped out a injured climber last year after a rescue from the top, we got them to the campsites and they took out the injured from there.

[mtnnut]

By paying the fee you become part of the problem.

 

Seems like the only way you get to express disapproval is to not pay the fee. Actually, it might be a good idea to memorize the address of a forest service office as your fake address that you can be prepared to give (just to annoy them more if they decide to try to follow up). They have no right to have you produce identification, so they are really powerless to do anything about it. For best results, don't hang around your car in the parking lot when you come back down, since in some areas with the forest trail fees they try to get the idea of a "ticket" to stick by accosting the driver when they return to the car.

 

Of course it stinks that the 'bilers aren't charged, but in reality it is the fee for climbers that should be dropped. Think about it, what do you get for that fee? The Monitor Ridge trail was put in by volunteers. Snow covered travel this time of year needs no trail anyway.

 

Then think about the more than a million dollar visitor facility on the other side of the mountain, where if they comply, the visitors are supposed to pay half the amount as the climbers to experience the interpretive displays in the building or driving around on the roads.

[Bug]

If it doesn't burn oil, eat oil, or drink oil, we have to find some other way to squeeze money out of it. We are the government. We are here to help.

[aggressivepedestrian]

Mtn nut says that by paying the fee I become part of the problem.

 

I partially agree, and part of me wishes I hadn't gone to Jack's after the climb and purchased a permit. However, hiding behind anonymity as he suggests doesn't help either.

 

What needs to be done is this: somebody, and maybe lots of somebodies, needs to be willing to take a citation to court. The ranger said he thought I should go to court to fight the citation if I felt strongly about it, but he also warned me that nobody has ever won in court.

 

I was thinking of doing this, but I don't have any clue how to go about fighting this type of thing. After all, I am not a lawyer.

 

By the way Wild Wilderness is sponsoring a "Day of Action" on June 15. I haven't read a lot of details about their plans, but why not have an all-out assault on one of the volcanoes that day? Just get a heck of a lot of folks to go up Mt. St. Helens: screw the quota, and screw the fees. (Actually I don't mind the quota, but I do object to the fees.)

[Figger_Eight]

quote:

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Unlike his partner, this second ranger was pretty cool.

---

Unfortunately, some of the rangers in our parks have become bit jaded about non-permit carrying climbers. For as many conscientous protesters climbing the mountain, there are twice as many jack asses cursing out rangers just to be a tough guy. I've been busted a few times without having a permit, and each time I had a good conversation about permitting with the ranger. Many of them are nice guys who just want to work outdoors. There has to be a limit to the number of people crowding the mountains in the summer. Whether or not you should pay a fee is a different story. And IMO - all 'biles should be outlawed on St. Helens.

 

[ 05-14-2002, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Figger Eight ]

[freeclimb9]

If you're gonna plot a Day of Action, you'll get more mileage if you invite some journalists along. And invite your Congressman. Having a media kit to join your invitations would be prudent too (just something with talking points like the disparity in how fees are charged, or that the 3 year Recreation Fee Demo project has gone on for close to seven years, etc.).

email your congressman: www.house.gov, www.senate.gov

[oldclimber]

We camped near the same two rangers on sat. night and they didn't bug us at all which I found refreshing. I talked with one of them on sun. near the seismograph about snowmobiles, permits,etc. He gave me the same info about meetings with lots of snowmobilers and no climbers and said to write the Monument headquarters, that it will make a difference. I described responses I had read on this site from monument administrators that thanked the writer for their interest, but no changes would even be considered until the entire comprehensive recreation plan comes up for review in a few years.

As I continued to descend I was reminded of a similar encounter last summer at the Randall ranger station. We were buying our double taxation permits to climb Adams and the person at the desk was very sympathetic to my views on the subject, but still wanted 15 bucks. It makes me start thinking that in addition to telling the public to write letters, are these same seemingly sympathetic staff speaking up in their staff/policy meetings to share their contacts with the public and suggest their district make changes ?

 

On a slightly different topic, does any one have info on specific activities in Wa. for theJune 15 fee demo protest day ? I'm not finding real specific info on the wild wilderness site.

[mtnnut]

I agree, hiding behind an alias when you are caught isn't likely to cause political change. I can't say I trust the legal system either, since I'm not a lawyer. But every fee paid is recorded as a vote in favor of the Fee Demo program. Only by not paying (and I guess to be recorded as such you probably have to get caught) can you register a vote against. So I guess my theory is you can ensure you don't have to pay a penalty in the courts yet get recorded as a vote against Fee Demo by giving a fake name when you get caught.

 

One of the things that bothers me about this situation is that you are expected to get a permit (during the core season), which in this case is supposed to limit the quantity of people, and if it were done in a Forest Service office rather than a commercial retail establishment, could provide the opportunity for something useful like low-impact travel advice or the like.

 

But then, on top of it, they want you to pay a fee. So, those who don't want to pay a fee can't get a permit. I'm not sure what sort of official penalties there would be for not paying a fee, but there are established precedents for not having permits.