Alex Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 michelle, your confusion is due to: the "one pin that generally has webbing on it about 20' off the deck" is actually 2 pins very close together and equalized. the third pin is the one in the v-slot below and left of the ringing flake someone confirm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrydog Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 confirmed:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt45 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I've gone out right from that pin over to the 1st anchors on Sagitarius. Then back out left to a crack that starts about 6' above the first fixed pin and haven't found the pro in that crack to be hand to fingers. 'Cause that wouldn't have sketched me out. I recall small nut placements that weren't that great and a couple cam hook moves. The crack goes up to a left facing corner that eventually brings you up to the left of the ringing flake anchors. The pin I was saying should not have been pulled is at the start of the left facing corner (which may be your v-slot). If the pin isn't there and the pro below it pulls out to either the Sagitarius anchors or to the first fixed pin, you are risking a ground fall. You may have been climbing a variation. If you go straight up, instead of cutting right to the Saggitarius anchor, you will find incredibly bomber hand & finger-sized gear placements. This section goes up to a right-facing corner, not left-facing as you specified. It's route #128 in this topo The p where it says '5.11d' is the two equalized fixed pitons. The p higher up where it says '5.10' is the fixed piton which is now missing. It looks like it is possible to continue up a left-facing corner from the Sag anchor, maybe that is the way you went? Here is a photo of the exact spot where the fixed pin used to be (immediately above the climber's helmet). You can see the hand-crack size section of the crack immediately below (next to the yellow etrier). The red sling a ways down is on the two equalized fixed pins. I can't imagine someone taking a ground fall from here as the pro below is excellent (and the fall is extremely clean too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 while the free climbing below now-missing fixed pin was probably 5.10 and does actually take bomber gear, pulling into and through the slot was pretty fucking hard, as I recall, with no rest or stance to place pro. You'll notice the little 5.11+ there, thats the move(s) that the pin protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt45 Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 and to be complete it is worth mentioning that this crux section formerly had TWO fixed pins, the second being about a body length above the one under discussion. Both are on the topo, both were there a few months ago, both are super handy for free climbing...and both are now missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 while the free climbing below now-missing fixed pin was probably 5.10 and does actually take bomber gear, pulling into and through the slot was pretty fucking hard, as I recall, with no rest or stance to place pro. You'll notice the little 5.11+ there, thats the move(s) that the pin protected. There's killer gear right at your ankle/foot for that section, then you are at the jug...don't need the pin...although it was nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 when ringing flake falls off it will be a lot more interesting to climb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCramer Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Can't you place a #2 Friend right below where the pin use to be? (By right below I mean within 2" of the pin?)Is there a bomber #5 rp or small nut about two feet higher that you can place before doing the crux? It is too bad the pins were stolen. Especially the lower two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 hahahaha...i think my hand is in that slot! and yes...there's a small nut placement right after finishing the crux... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrydog Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 "it is too bad the pins were stolen. Especially the lower two." the 2 lower pins on the route are still there DC. and i personally think that the 2 upper pins will be in place again for this climbing season. as it was stated the lower upper pin was cracked. the upper upper pin was pretty rusty too. sounds like a good reason to replace them both to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 uhh...not trying to start a war here, but wouldn't a couple of nice fat bolts be better than a pin, no pin, woah a new pin, dammit its gone, oh look a new pin, ad nauseum?? pretty soon theres gonna be a big fat HOLE there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrydog Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 my opinion is that the fixed pins are in the right place for good and well accepted (how many yrs..?) reasons. the number of yrs the pins have lasted should be a testiment to the longevity of pitons and there working life. that being said, i think that pulling them and replacing them often can create an unsightly and unnecessary scar. the pin puller should have been in a position to replace them the same day he pulled them, OR not have pulled them at all (at this point i side w/ the latter. i keep reminding myself while reading this thread that the reason they are gone is still unknown. i dont think any part of that climb needs a bolt though. peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallstein Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 I saw someone aid steel monkey on wednesday. Two pins were placed within 10 ft of the ground. It was a pretty sad sight. The climber didn't even try to get a small brass offset in. His said there was no way to do it clean (while standing in his third steps placing a LA that was way to big). I don't understand why aid climbers insist on "practicing" placing pins. Its not like its hard. Nor is it required for any trade routes these days. I was pretty disapointed and couldn't understand why the climber wasn't trying to learn to be a better aid climber. Pins are a thing of the past and newbie aid climbers should realize this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancegranite Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 I removed one of the fixed pins on Snowblind on the day before Thanksgiving day, 1997. It sits on my book shelf like a war trophy. The pin pulled when I clipped in short and leaned back... straight over in a perfect(?) backwards swan dive. I had time to say: "oh shitOHHHHSSHHHIIIIT!" This kind of thing is embarassing enough, with the screaming and such.... Luck was with me that day, as I recieved no injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 I saw someone irreversibly damaging an established free route on wednesday. That sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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