An insight into how Saddam is viewed in Iraq

[allthumbs]

"He killed my son Mohammed and he tortured his people," 40-year-old Halem al-Jassen said as she celebrated in the street. "Thank God for the United States."

 

So I guess some of them like us... Mostly people who lost loved ones under Saddam, I would imagine. Or at least those who can see the forest for the trees - more comments by me on this a little later in this post.

 

In the Kurdish city of Kirkuk in the north, eight people were killed and 80 wounded from gunfire during celebrations of Saddam's capture.

 

What a bunch of morons. Didn't they learn about Isaac Newton??

 

Safa al-Douri, a 36-year-old grocery store owner in Adwar, the town where Saddam was captured late Saturday, said it was too painful to watch the video. I could not stand looking at him. When I heard the news of his arrest it was as though somebody told me my father had died," he said. "But when I saw his face, it was even worse."

 

Suck it up, bud. Obviously either a Baath party member, a Sunni, or just an idiot.

 

Ayet Bassem, who wore the traditional black cloak of religious Muslim women, was overcome with relief. "Things will be better for my son," she said, clutching the hand of 6-year-old Zenalbadin. "My son now has a future."

 

Another interesting comment.

 

At Baghdad's Palestine hotel, where foreign journalists and American contract workers are staying, Abil Daoud was sad.

"We lost our only hope and now we are stuck with the Americans," said Daoud, who is employed by U.S. troops as a security guard.

 

Some one needs to review this boy's employment as a FREAKIN SECURITY GUARD!!! What the hell is that all about?

 

Among them was YWHA Hassan. "I'm very happy. Now we can start a new beginning."

 

More notes of hope!

 

Outside the capital, in places such as Mosul, where attacks on Americans have been particularly intense over the past two months, Noha Fakhri wanted to cry. "I love Saddam," she said. "I had hope that he might return to power, but now I know he won't."

 

No shit, Sherlock. Another Sunni? Fearful for her own fate now that Saddam is in the can?

 

What is it with these people? They never cease to amaze me. And the Palestinians today stated that we should have not treated Saddam in such a dehumanizing way by showing video of his medical exam. What about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that he had no problem killing and dehumanizing? Oh - perhaps it was because it was done in private? I cannot understand the hatred of Israel and the United States among these people who show a blind eye to one of their own kind - whatever he does is OK. Whatever we do is not.

 

These people have brought their own misery down on themselves, and until they realize that, and start practicing their true religion and not that of some radical with an agenda, they will continue to live in squalor and oppression. That is what I most fear.

[scrambler]

I came across a story once, I think I might have read it in Little Big Man, that if you save someone's life at first that person is grateful but eventually that person begins to hate you because he cannot repay the impossible debt he owes you.

 

Also there's the old cliché that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[catbirdseat]

We have to convince the Iraqis that there is a new paradigm going down in Iraq. No more does one group get all the goodies, while the other get's the shaft. Bush should talk to the Iraqis instead of just to Americans. He should say, "You, who were beaten down, you will have equality and justice. You who were Saddam's favorites, you will be protected from retribution. You will be treated like everyone else. You will know prosperity if you work hard."

[allthumbs]

Cattbird, I see you still believe in Santa.

[catbirdseat]

Cattbird, I see you still believe in Santa.

You left out the Tooth Fairy.

[sexual_chocolate]

hardly surprising, really. Saddam suppressed the cessationist ambitions of both the Kurds and the Shias in a most cruel way; do you really think you'd find much support for him within these groups? Of course not.

 

I'm not sure what your point is in even bringing this up....

 

 

Remember when AIM (american indian movement) began to agitate for greater awareness and independence for native americans, back in the '70's? A pretty quick reaction from the feds, i'd say. How many Natives were killed in the ensuing slaughter? (And I believe one fbi agent was killed, and now leonard peltier still sits in prison as the fall guy.)

 

My point with the above example is that if any ethnic group began a militant attempt at securing territory here in the US, they would experience a fate not unlike the Kurds and the Shias did in Iraq. And believe me, the Native Americans have as good a cause to agitate for independence as the Kurds have had in Iraq!

[RobBob]

the Native Americans have as good a cause to agitate for independence as the Kurds have had in Iraq!

 

Jesus Christ, SC, it's 100 years later. We've made most tribes rich with the gambling industry. At some point they are going to have to make the cultural decision to look toward the future instead of the past, deal with some of their demons, and go forth into the melting pot!

[HRoark]

A long hiatus and SC is still a fucking idiot...figures.

[sexual_chocolate]

Jesus Christ, SC, it's 100 years later. We've made most tribes rich with the gambling industry. At some point they are going to have to make the cultural decision to look toward the future instead of the past, deal with some of their demons, and go forth into the melting pot!

 

 

Nice! I expected something like this as a reaction!

 

"Those darn Injuns....what are they whining about now? Can't they just accept that we wiped 'em out and took their land? It was a fair fight, and we just showed 'em white man's superiority. Still showing it, by god!"

 

Hey, maybe the indians coulda gone over to Iraq and showed the Kurds and the Shias how to set up Casinos! Cuz we have now concluded that their clamor for an independent homeland was silly; they should have just gotten over it, and blended into Iraqi society!

 

Thanks, RobBob, for the insightful clarification! (Now what shall we do about those pesky black people?)

[allthumbs]

[RobBob]

SC, since trask's not around to take the bait, I figured I'd stand in for him. Okay, let's talk about the social problems and inequities that the black population endures in the US. Are reparations going to fix that?

 

Why is it that a Vietnamese family has been able to come to the US, the father takes a job initially bagging groceries, the kids are put in the local public schools...and 15-20 years later the younger generation are all physicians living in nice neighborhoods? While at the same time, the poor whitetrash family that lived beside them in the late '70s has repeated the cycle of failure in education, family breakup, alcoholism? At some point, it's not the US government's responsibility anymore to solve these social-norm problems. There has to be at least some hard effort on the part of the 'oppressed' to join the ranks of the non-oppressed.

 

And all this has little to do with Saddam's gassing the Kurds.

[sexual_chocolate]

 

And all this has little to do with Saddam's gassing the Kurds.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly.

 

Saddam waged a long (and bloody) campaign in an attempt to assimilate the Kurds and strip them of their ethnic heritage. This attempt was entirely consistent with the US' methods in dealing with our own ethnic minorities.

 

 

Why is it that a Vietnamese family has been able to come to the US, the father takes a job initially bagging groceries, the kids are put in the local public schools...and 15-20 years later the younger generation are all physicians living in nice neighborhoods? While at the same time, the poor whitetrash family that lived beside them in the late '70s has repeated the cycle of failure in education, family breakup, alcoholism?

 

 

I'm curious as to why YOU think this is so....(I like the part of all of the asian immigrants becoming doctors! Stereotyping is SO hard to overcome!)

[allthumbs]

do black guys really have bigger dicks?

[sexual_chocolate]

And furthermore robrob....

 

i believe your first objection was my claim that native americans had a right to land claims; you said it had been "a hundred years", so they should just get over it. Why do you think the Kurds' land claims are more relevant? Please answer....

 

Trask: from what I've heard, you are intimately aware of the answer to that question....

[allthumbs]

and wazzup with those bubble butts anyway?

[RobBob]

....(I like the part of all of the asian immigrants becoming doctors! Stereotyping is SO hard to overcome!)

 

I'm not stereotyping, I'm thinking of two families in my high school in VA, who ended up exactly as I have described.

 

trask, you take over. I'm headed off to listen to my kids play christmas music at school with their white, black, asian, and hispanic classmates. Funny thing is, these kids all are doing well in a charter school where all the parents are committed to their children's education. Families and social norms at work.

[sexual_chocolate]

goddam, must be an extra tendon or sumthin'. put that gun down and pass me another goddam beer, before i fuck my mom agin.

[RobBob]

and furthermore

 

I wasn't speaking of land claims specifically. I was thinking about their social problems as a whole. At some point the social programs do more harm than good. I would think that odds improve for kids who can get off the reservation and into the mainstream culture.

[allthumbs]

sexy got it goin on shazzam!!!

[sexual_chocolate]

I'm headed off to listen to my kids play christmas music at school with their white, black, asian, and hispanic classmates. Funny thing is, these kids all are doing well in a charter school where all the parents are committed to their children's education. Families and social norms at work.

 

 

Ahh nice! so you have one example to back your claim that you're not stereo-typing! Hip hip hooray!

 

And wow, you hang out with different ethnicities! But, I really don't see the above multi-culturalism as a counter-argument to what I see as your subconscious racist tendencies. Sorry.

[Peter_Puget]

Wow Sexy you're on a roll!

[sexual_chocolate]

Your form of racism is really one of the most insidious:

 

"All ethnicities are really as equal and as worthy as me, as long as they conform to MY norms and MY values."

[catbirdseat]

I don't think SC is stereotyping the Vietnamese. They really do work harder and in fact a relatively large proportion of them HAVE become doctors. That profession is in particular highly regarded in that community for some reason.

[allthumbs]

do you think kids should graduate high school even if they fail the WASL test?

[marylou]

Your form of racism is really one of the most insidious:

 

"All ethnicities are really as equal and as worthy as me, as long as they conform to MY norms and MY values."

 

Very well put, SC.

 

I think the Iraquis might be feeling a little bit more gratitude in our general direction(s) if they had in any way ASKED us to liberate them from their tyrannical leader.

 

They didn't invite us. We INVADED their country and now we occupy it.

 

No one should be surprised that there is insurrection against an occupying force, no matter how (allegedly) high-minded the reason for the invasion and overthrow of the government.