AmberBuxom Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 slaphappy said: lummox- what is the big deal with wedge anchors? In the past what you have stated is not accurate about the removal of each style. The tip of a 5-piece stays in the hole and sucks to drill through. Wedge are not hard to remove and the hole can then be reused or oversized and reused. 5-piece do have a better pull out strength, particularly in shitty stone, but the shear is nearly the same on a wedge and a 5-piece. I believe it is closer to 5000lbs than 7000. Are you stating facts or spew? actually it is no big deal to completely remove all parts of a 5 piece anchor. first you unscrew the bolt. then fish out the sleeve (needle nose pliers work). then rescrew the bolt into the wedge and pull it out (you might need to apply a little force. the claw of a framing hammer is more than enough). for shear and tension strengths of power-bolts (thats the trademark name for 5 piece bolts) check em out for yourself: http://www.rawl.com/58-62.pdf i figure granite is well over 6000 psi concrete density since a powder actuated anchor barely makes a dent in the stuff but goes into concrete with a couple charges. in terms of removing wedge type anchors i aint ever done it without damaging the rock to some extent (and sometimes to a large extent when it dinner plates). and in fact i often spew. but you can check out all the facts yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 That removal of the wedge at the end of a five-piece might not work if the bolt was corroded inside the hole. Have you tried this with bolts that have been in the rock for a long time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Simple solution for this matt, is to overdrill the depth of the hole in the first place...you can then drive the offending piece of metal in further and rebolt or enlarge the hole if upgrading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmberBuxom Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 mattp said: That removal of the wedge at the end of a five-piece might not work if the bolt was corroded inside the hole. Have you tried this with bolts that have been in the rock for a long time? no i havent tried it with bolts that have been in the rock a long time (weeks but not months or years). but aluminum generally forms a thin oxide layer and stops corroding further. really i dont have strong feelings about others choosing to use wedge type anchors. i hold myself to a different standard. i have placed a bunch of redhead wedge types and regret it now. same with rawl drives but i didnt know better at the time. 5 piece bolts have wicked high shear (it is a grade 5 bolt after all) are easy enough to place (but admittedly tend to disassemble in a bolt bag: duct tape will prevent that) have a low profile (they dont mess with carabiner gates like an extended wedge bolt can) and remove completely. i think they are the best bolt currently available. under a buck apiece at electrical supply wholesalers. especially for sport routes they are the way to go. for me. you choose your own legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I don't think any portions of those bolts are aluminum...and they definitely are NOT in stainless bolts...steel plus aluminum equals BAD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmberBuxom Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 RuMR said: I don't think any portions of those bolts are aluminum...and they definitely are NOT in stainless bolts...steel plus aluminum equals BAD... you are right. the cone is aisi 12l14 steel. it is very ductile. high lead content or sumpin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I have come across several 5 piece bolts that have become spinners due to what I assumed to be corrosion between the cone and the bolt. When this has happened it was a really big pain to remove the bolt. I think that ½’ stainless is the way to go. These bolts should last years and certainly have adequate strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmberBuxom Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Peter_Puget said: I have come across several 5 piece bolts that have become spinners due to what I assumed to be corrosion between the cone and the bolt. When this has happened it was a really big pain to remove the bolt. I think that ½’ stainless is the way to go. These bolts should last years and certainly have adequate strength. i aint ever seen a 5 piece bolt that spun. the hanger on the other hand . . . now i couldnt even count the number of loose nuts on wedge type anchors that ive come across. but whatever gets it for you.i have placed 8 different types of anchors and think the power-bolt is the best. the BEST. i have had zero problems with them. but i have had problems with rawl drives and rawl and redhead wedgetype anchors. spend a little $. drill some outa the way rock in a fucked up quarry. place some different types yourself. make up your own mind. btw. wtf is a ½’ stainless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackbolter Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 6" diameter bolt. You'll never have to replace them again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 I would only note that since I am talking about removing 5 piece bolts that are many years old and you are talking about removing them after several weeks, you might have different experiences than me. I think if you place a bolt, you should do so with the expectation that it will be in place for many years not weeks. Over years what will be the impact corrosion? Who knows for certain. I have nothing against 5 piece just letting you know my experience with some bolts I did not originally place. PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappy Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 AmberBuxom said: actually it is no big deal to completely remove all parts of a 5 piece anchor. first you unscrew the bolt. then fish out the sleeve (needle nose pliers work). then rescrew the bolt into the wedge and pull it out (you might need to apply a little force. the claw of a framing hammer is more than enough). for shear and tension strengths of power-bolts (thats the trademark name for 5 piece bolts) check em out for yourself: http://www.rawl.com/58-62.pdf i figure granite is well over 6000 psi concrete density since a powder actuated anchor barely makes a dent in the stuff but goes into concrete with a couple charges. in terms of removing wedge type anchors i aint ever done it without damaging the rock to some extent (and sometimes to a large extent when it dinner plates). and in fact i often spew. but you can check out all the facts yourself. Ok, I was perhaps mis-informed about the shear strengths or not thoroughly informed, but still disagree about the removal of the wedge of a 5-piece. I have tried a similar method and was not successful. They were there for about 7 years. I have removed wedge anchors with minimal to no scarring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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