scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 minx said: erik said: i think what ray is saying that why do you choose to impose your beliefs on an entire people whom know only that, their entire life is that and their entire heritage is that? it does not matter what outsiders think, they could careless. the muslim's are still a tribal people for the most part, they live their lives as they did a 1000 years ago in many regards. don't impose your morals on someone else, as you did not want to someone to do to you. i largely agree with you. the debate here is over a subtle point. something i see as an absolute and separate from religious morals. i see this as wrong regardless of religion, history, culture etc. killing someone is wrong. i've drawn the line there. i have no qualms with the woman being punished if she's violated their law. but taking the life of another human who isn't threatening yours is wrong! we all put up with plenty of imposition of other's morals each day. i don't see this in the same category. Here's a question for ya, Minx. Assume you had ESP (just assume). Now assume also that you meet someone who you intuit will be the next Stalin, Hitler, John Wayne Gacy. Does that justify your action in killing that person? I mean, you know you're saving other peoples' lives in the process. It's the lessor of two evils. This doesn't exactly apply in this case. But, is the death of one person worth preserving the social fabric of a nation (as the inhabitants see it)? Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 unlike erik, i don't think we should have to accept social/cultural norms just b/c they've been ingrained in a society for a long time. But then they should not have to accept yours. It's a double edged sword. Quote
Sphinx Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 Killing is not wrong per se. When killing is justified and found acceptable by the vast majority of people, killing is not wrong. For example, should serial killers/torturers be executed? IMO, yes. However, the punishment should fit the crime. Death for sex outside of marriage is not justified, IMO. Quote
Sphinx Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 Cpt.Caveman said: Yes. What? I have no absolute truths, as truth is an invention of the human minds, and is hence open to interpretation. Quote
incubus Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 Sphinx said: Cpt.Caveman said: Yes. What? I have no absolute truths, as truth is an invention of the human minds, and is hence open to interpretation. Sphinx, that's a crock of shit. Doublespeak Quote
Sphinx Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 incubus said: Sphinx said: Cpt.Caveman said: Yes. What? I have no absolute truths, as truth is an invention of the human minds, and is hence open to interpretation. Sphinx, that's a crock of shit. Doublespeak How so? What's an absolute truth? PS stop attacking me! Quote
scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 Society, the larger organism, has rules meant to preserve its cohesion. Take, for instance, the Ten Commandments. I take these commandments to exist in a tribal sense. By that I mean these rules apply to those in your social group. "Thou shall not kill." Thou shall not kill someone within one's social group. It's acceptable to kill someone outside of one's social group in order to preserve the larger organism. The same applies to the rest of the "Thou shalt nots." Effectively, when someone breaks a commandment, he casts himself out of the social group. Big questions... Quote
scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 Sphinx said: incubus said: Sphinx said: Cpt.Caveman said: Yes. What? I have no absolute truths, as truth is an invention of the human minds, and is hence open to interpretation. Sphinx, that's a crock of shit. Doublespeak How so? What's an absolute truth? Physical death is an absolute truth. Quote
Sphinx Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 scrambler said: Sphinx said: incubus said: Sphinx said: Cpt.Caveman said: Yes. What? I have no absolute truths, as truth is an invention of the human minds, and is hence open to interpretation. Sphinx, that's a crock of shit. Doublespeak How so? What's an absolute truth? Physical death is an absolute truth. How is death a truth? I thought we were talking ethics and morality? Quote
RobBob Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 It is not simple to change a muslim nations governing IMHO. They have strict standards beliefs and rules. Some more than others. Many christian folks may never understand comprehend or agree with their lifestyles. It's the lifestyle that is also imbedded with the politics in some of these nations. That is what makes something like this not so simple. Caveman has said a mouthful of wisdom here...which says a lot about the situation we find ourselves in in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have a relative staying at my house right now, on leave from a civilian job in Saudi, and I've been discovering just how little I have really understood about that culture. The average Westerner has no idea about life in the muslim world, the arab world, africa, se asia. Quote
incubus Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 RobBob said: The average Westerner has no idea about life in the muslim world, the arab world, africa, se asia. ...but by god we're gonna go in there, kick ass and find out, aren't we? Quote
RobBob Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 ...to the tune of more than one of our guys a day, post-war... Quote
scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Posted September 25, 2003 How is death a truth? I thought we were talking ethics and morality? Truth as certainty. Otherwise, it's as difficult to define as God. When we say, truth, we are really only talking about the label, not the actual thing. We can't really grasp the thing in its entirety. So death as certainty. As a phenomenon in time. We know that other people die and one day I too will die. I'm talking about physical death, not getting into whether there is a spirit or soul, metaphysics. I don't know what's going to happen in the next moment but I can reasonably presume that based on the pattern of previous experience that the sun will eventually set and night will prevail. And so on until morning. Death or decay also as a constant, as entrophy. We have things such as the gravitational constant, speed of light. We can't really conceive of violating these constants. There're (as far as we know) universal physical laws. Maybe this constant will exist through time unless time begins to go backwards. Impossible? Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass and this is complete bullshit! Here's some William Blake for ya to ponder: "From the depths of dark solitude. From The eternal abode in my holiness, Hidden set apart in my stern counsels Reserv'd for the days of futurity, I have sought for a joy without pain, For a solid without fluctuation Why will you die O Eternals? Why live in unquenchable burnings?" The Book of Urizen, Chap. II, 4 (1794) "Coldness, darkness, obstruction, a Solid Without fluctuation, hard as adamant Black as marble of Egypt; impenetrable Bound in the fierce raging Immortal. And the seperated fires froze in A vast solid without fluctuation, Bound in his expanding clear senses" The Book of Los, Chap. I, 10 (1795) Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.