cracked Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 (edited) A complete idiot, or a troll. I can't tell. Edit: you have to scroll down, look for the posts from 'alpinist'. Edited September 11, 2003 by cracked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I somewhat agree with alpinist here, Cracked. First, I'll admit that I telemark only because of a historical accident (I abandoned alpine skiing to eat granola and take up cross-country skiing, then the telemark fad came along). ON SKIS, I believe AT gear is probably safer and more effective on steep technical terrain (though telemark gear is better for more touring-oriented terrain). But I've done a lot of mountaineering in my telemark boots and I think they generally ARE more comfortable when travelling ON FOOT. I've never had a problem with the duck bill or with the flexibility of the sole on trails or on snow (these are not helpful features on rock). I've also done a fair number of water ice and mixed climbs with my telemark boots and they perform just fine (I use rigid crampons). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 No, I mean his assertion that steep ice can be climbed more easily in soft boots than rigid boots. I know that, especially with tele boots, a rigid crampon will make a decent platform out of them. This isn't true in leather mountain boots, as the boot is much more likely to twist out of the crampon. Â And when it comes to climbing boots, I suspect that most people would prefer to climb ice in rigid boots than flexible boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 "WI2-WI5 destroying your calves...It sounds like you still need to learn some technique of how to climb. I prefer softer boots for the mixed portions or the portions where I remove my crampons all together. Rigid crampons can go a long ways to stiffening the soles of the boot, but aren't always desired. " Â Sounds like I won't need new boots this year after all. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necronomicon Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Seems like you're logic was getting it's ass kicked over there, so you've brought it over here, where we're supposed to all nod "Yessa! Yessa!" without Alpinist (who reads like Polish Bob with capitalization) around. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Yes, most climbers would agree with you, that on steep water ice a rigid boot or a rigid boot/crampon combination is vastly preferable. But he's mixing it up a bit, talking about "mixed portions and portions where I remove my crampons altogether." There is a lot of mountaineering terrain where a more flexlible telemark boot (not one of the high calf racing boots) IS more comfortable and just as effective as an AT boot. Â Don't get me wrong. I would not take up telemark skiing for ski-mountaineering if I were starting out today. But the boots are better for mountaineering than your arguments would suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 I've only had experience with my T3s, maybe it's just that particular boot. I didn't like them much for climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 They DO suck for rock climbing, and they do not perform well on ice if you don't use rigid crampons, that's for sure!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I mountaineer in my T2's all the time. I agree with alpinist for the most part. I use my T2's and sabretooth crampons for most mountain climbs and have used that same configuration up to WI3 so far without any problems. Â A lot of manufacturers market models of leather boots designed specifically for ice climbing. I have a pair of Salomon Pro Ice that are designed for ice--although they are made out of some sort of composite synthetic material they are NOT rigid plastic. Â I almost never use my Invernos anymore. Maybe I should get rid of them? Anyone need a pair: size 11? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 rbw1966 said: A lot of manufacturers market models of leather boots designed specifically for ice climbing. I have a pair of Salomon Pro Ice that are designed for ice--although they are made out of some sort of composite synthetic material they are NOT rigid plastic. No, but the pair that I tried on are certainly rigid, or very close to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 cracked said: . . . I know that, especially with tele boots, a rigid crampon will make a decent platform out of them. This isn't true in leather mountain boots, as the boot is much more likely to twist out of the crampon. . . Â This was what I was responding to with my comments re leather boots. I've seen crampons pop off of AT boots, Invernos and leathers. Crampons popping off are more likely due to operator error than faulty footwear, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackbolter Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Where did you climb WI 3 for ski mountaineering descents? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Crackbolter said: Where did you climb WI 3 for ski mountaineering descents? Â I skied the approach for some ice that shall remain unnamed at this time. It wasn't "ski mountaineering" but it was backcountry skiing and I climbed some WI3. Â I will say that I used my T2's in Hyalite. Just for shits and giggles to compare them to my Invernos. No skiing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Crackbolter- There aee lots of ski approaches to technical climbs around here and, although I have a pair of skis with Silveretta's on them, I usually opt for the telemark gear unless I'm headed for something really technical. I haven't climbed anything XTREME with the telemark boots, but have managed to climb many of the "standard" winter climbs around here with them - N. Ridge of Pinnacle Peak, N Face Chair, N.E. Slab of Da Toof, NE Couloir on Colchuck, .... They do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Even Scarpa Lasers are pretty cool for mountaineering. Â I did the entire approach and NR of baker in them. A shocking 21 hours in those things kind of ate my feet up on the hike out, but with the lightweight thermoflex liners (Way to hot for spring conditions) they were not that bad at all. Â I think they are awesome for kicking steps. I left my crampons at the sitkum saddle on glacier peak in may, and of course the ice started just a few hundred feet above that, and I had no problems at all. AT RULEZ!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 This is why I got my Tourlite 4S'. 4lbs 12oz (for BOTH boots) with evolution liners, walk as well as a standard stiff mountaineering boot (not saying much, I know), and climb pretty much like them. With the ski spoilers they ski well enough to ski anything I would want to ski on a trip where a mix of skiing and climbing is the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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