Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
bubblebutt

simu-climbing techniques

Recommended Posts

I was with a beginner the other day doing a route that required sinu-climbing and although I told him the basics , i.e. we'll move toghther with running belays, I realized that I'd never really thought about communications during sinu-climbing between climbers , stopping to clean gear, how many pieces etc and he has more questions than I had a ready answer for. Anybody with more experience at simu-climbing an alpine ridge than I got a good list of simu-climbing does and don't. Concept is easy but exection little more difficult. cool.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bubblebutt said:

a good list of simu-climbing does and don't

do: climb with someone you trust.

dont: fall or knock rocks loose.

thumbs_up.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do:

do a search on cascade climbers for simulclimbing to read the previous discussions on this topic

 

tie in short so that you are ~100 feet apart to reduce rope drag and facilitate communication

 

carry a larger than normal rack (extra small pieces don't weigh much) so that you can lead longer pitches

 

stop to belay *after* a hard section (instead of before) - leading through it (as long as the rope is tight) you are as well protected as with a belay, but you don't want the second to fall and pull the leader off. with the hard bit below you, you can continue simulclimbing without having to waste time changing "modes".

 

esp. on ridges, take advantage of natural pro, i.e. weaving back and forth around towers and such

 

dont:

fall

 

lead while leaving your newbie buddy to follow. the person less likely to fall should climb second, as it is relatively easy to hold a leader fall while simuling but very hard to hold a real second fall. thus, the leader, even if of lesser ability, must still be efficient at route finding and placing gear, or the system doesn't work too well.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another trick is to place a Petzl Tibloc after difficult pitch to protect the second instead of stopping to belay. The idea is that the Tibloc will allow the rope to pass as the leader climbs but will lock off if the second falls (hopefully sparing the leader from having to catch the fall).

 

What about simul-climbing with more than 2 people on a rope?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do (re-emphasized): bring LOTS of runners. for me they always seem to be the limiting factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone ever taken a fall on a tibloc attached to an intermediate pro piece while simul-climbing?

 

Rope damage?

 

I've seen a tibloc rip up a sheath on a rope while being used as an ascender... Fortunately it wasn't me that did it and it wasn't my rope. cool.gif

 

I've placed a tibloc on a piece while simulclimbing (twice I think) but the second didn't fall. Didn't get to test the idea, Darn!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, I have, simul-climbing on Slesse. Tibloc was on equalized pieces to limit movement, I was belaying with a gri-gri, and trailing rope behind. The leader knew I was coming off, I knew I was coming off, there was no damage to the sheath. There's a bunch of info on the Gripped BB about the setup we were using. I'd use the setup again --the only thing I'd change is the weight of the damn pack that pulled me off the moves, dadgummit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tibloc shouldn't damage the rope because if the second falls, unless it is some sort of pendulum fall, there shouldn't be any slack in the rope and there will be little dynamic loading. If the leader falls, of course, the Tibloc doesn't hold the fall, the weight of the follower does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
catbirdseat said:

The Tibloc shouldn't damage the rope because if the second falls, unless it is some sort of pendulum fall, there shouldn't be any slack in the rope and there will be little dynamic loading. If the leader falls, of course, the Tibloc doesn't hold the fall, the weight of the follower does.

 

not to jump on your case and all, but to jump on your case if i may, to say there shouldn't be any slack in the rope sounds a little like a perfect world situation. my experience with simulclimbing is the follower can't always go through moves at precicely the same speed as the leader (and often may move ahead creating a little slack to give the leader enough rope for his moves). so i think a little slack could easily be in the system, although hopefully not more than 20 feet or say at most i guess. anyway, a falling body speeds up pretty quick so can't even 10 feet generate a descent yank? i have a tibloc and it pretty damn pointy looking. anybody else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it's worth, Petzl provides drop-test data on the Tibloc. For an 80kg mass (your typical climber, I suppose) taking a factor 1, the device completely cuts 8mm cord, but no failure on high stretch 9mm or greater. It is marketed for 8-11mm ropes

 

Slow pull tests on the Tibloc (to sheath failure):

8mm - 4.9kN

9mm - 6.5kN

11mm - 5.3kN

 

Falls generating forces of this magnitude in simul-climbing are conceivable if there is slack. This data doesn't say when the rope will snap, but will tell you when it is well on its way to failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way I look at it you shouldn't be simu-ing unless you are completely sure you and your partner(s) can solo the terrain you are on. I look at simu-ing as a method to get me and my partner(s) to the hard sections where we want to belay without having to coil up the rope, or put it in the pack, whatever just to save time. I have to check that link that somebody posted on using the Tibloc, to me it seems sort of stupid, risking damage to your rope. Maybe work well one time, but even just ascending a rope with one of those things does damage. The do and don't are simple.

Do: climb in a safe manner and stay on

Don't: fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lI1|1! said:

catbirdseat said:

The Tibloc shouldn't damage the rope because if the second falls, unless it is some sort of pendulum fall, there shouldn't be any slack in the rope and there will be little dynamic loading. If the leader falls, of course, the Tibloc doesn't hold the fall, the weight of the follower does.

 

not to jump on your case and all, but to jump on your case if i may, to say there shouldn't be any slack in the rope sounds a little like a perfect world situation. my experience with simulclimbing is the follower can't always go through moves at precicely the same speed as the leader (and often may move ahead creating a little slack to give the leader enough rope for his moves). so i think a little slack could easily be in the system, although hopefully not more than 20 feet or say at most i guess. anyway, a falling body speeds up pretty quick so can't even 10 feet generate a descent yank? i have a tibloc and it pretty damn pointy looking. anybody else?

You have a valid point. There likely would some slack, but I would hope not more than a couple feet. I suppose it could be as much as 10 ft. If you set a Tibloc, you know the second has some hard moves coming up. I would imagine you could make an extra effort to make sure no slack develops until he is past the move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×