Greg_W Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 danielpatricksmith said: The author of the paper is actually doing a huge diservice to the community by publishing information that is just plain wrong and his own conclusions based on the fact that he has never exhibited symptoms of the disease. Doesn't this simply mean that he may be resistant to it? Pilling water doesn't take much. Although if it's glacial melt I usually don't bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurray Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Now I am really confused. Rockwell does NOT assert that " his own conclusions based on the fact that he has never exhibited symptoms of the disease.", as anyone who reads his paper can see. It makes me wonder if you actually DID read the paper, as you originally claimed that you had not, in it's entirety. Once again, you flatly state that his information is wrong, but you do not state WHAT is wrong. You notice that I specifically state what I disagree with, in your postings. That allows you to attempt to refute me. However, you don't give the same opportunity to the guy you are trashing. Not fair, and not reasonable. What is the huge disservice? How about this: you have stated in your posting that you have worked for a company selling filters. Seems to me that you have a conflict of interest in pushing these devices, and are fighting like a dog to perpetuate the myth that people need these largely useless devices. Rockwell, a prominent volunteer member of a SAR service, who is retired, gets no kickbacks from anyone. What service are you performing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmurray Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Merriam-Webster Online dictionary: OBSCURE:relatively unknown, not famous But you said: "Just because you have not heard about the journal does not make it obscure" And to that I say, on my planet, Earth, in plain English, yes it does! You further state: "Quite on the contrary, this journal, along with Journal of the American Water Works Association is where most of the Giardia and Cryptpsporidium research has been published and has had important impacts on public policy and the way municipal treatment plants do their business. " Which is great, I guess, but is NOT where the information used to develop medical treatments are published and discussed. I know I am going out on a limb, but I dont think the average backpacker uses those journals to educate themselves to the perils of backcountry water. Shockingly, I am virtually certain that no physician does, either. I would be astonished if any gastroenterologist or infectious disease specialist has ever read either of them. You state: "No, I did not do paristology work on human specimens (much easier than doing it in environmental samples, license or no)" If you don't do it, and are not licensed to do so (and have therefore not gone through the training required), then how can you make statements authoritatively about how easy/hard something is to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence_Sitter Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 kmurray said: Merriam-Webster Online dictionary: OBSCURE:relatively unknown, not famous But you said: "Just because you have not heard about the journal does not make it obscure" And to that I say, on my planet, Earth, in plain English, yes it does! You further state: "Quite on the contrary, this journal, along with Journal of the American Water Works Association is where most of the Giardia and Cryptpsporidium research has been published and has had important impacts on public policy and the way municipal treatment plants do their business. " Which is great, I guess, but is NOT where the information used to develop medical treatments are published and discussed. I know I am going out on a limb, but I dont think the average backpacker uses those journals to educate themselves to the perils of backcountry water. Shockingly, I am virtually certain that no physician does, either. I would be astonished if any gastroenterologist or infectious disease specialist has ever read either of them. You state: "No, I did not do paristology work on human specimens (much easier than doing it in environmental samples, license or no)" If you don't do it, and are not licensed to do so (and have therefore not gone through the training required), then how can you make statements authoritatively about how easy/hard something is to do? shit man...spending a sunny day spraying about water bugs...just drink the fucking water and get on with it... cheers mates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 (edited) Ummm, I never said I work for a filter company, not sure where you pulled that out of. Maybe you should read more carefully. The reason you have not heard of these journals is because you are not a scientist working in the field, just a lab tech. (I am sure you are a swell lab tech, and can ID bugs in people's shit real well.) I have many friends who have never heard of Science, Nature, Lancet, or NEJM. Does that make these journals obsure, or are you the person who decides what is obscure? I would imagine you are correct in assuming that most backcountry users do not use peer reviewed science journals to educate themselves on the relative risks of drinking out of streams. The average joe on the street does not read NEJM or The Lancet in making health care descisions either. Most people make their descisions based on the popular press which is the reason I am railing against Rockwell's piece. He presents an opinion piece (can't even be considered a balanced literature review) in the guise of a research paper. People read this and incorrectly believe they can't catch Giardia from drinking out of streams in the backcountry. You are full of assumptions, aren't you? What makes you so sure I was not trained on doing human paristology work? I actually learned to do this first, as an easy stepping stone to learning the techniques and applying them to environmental samples. I have been approached by the publisher of the piece to submit a critique of his work. I will post it here as well. Edited June 26, 2003 by danielpatricksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloth_Man Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 As far as I can tell you're both full of shit and I haven't learned a thing from either of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svilar Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Sorry to interrupt, but my experience with Giardia suggests it's not that big a deal. I had it last summer traveling in Africa and took four pills (can't remember the name, but sold by Pfizer) all in one dose. Knocked it out over night and hasn't returned. My buddy who was in the Peace Corps has it and refuses to get treated by the doctor - says it makes him regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissNormandy Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Dru said: Yes it was lab confirmed. The case I witnessed was source: Sukunka River near Chetwynd BC. Onset time: about 6 hours. Debilitated time: 2 weeks. Weight lost: 20 lbs. Well to Hell with Jenny Craig! I'm drinkin' me up some microorginisms!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megawanker Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 You sure don't look like you need to loose weight there Miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissNormandy Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 ChrisT said: Is vomiting def a symptom? A friend of mine has been seriously ill recently. She started with a UTI but developed high fever and chills. Subsequent tests revealed ecoli (sp?) and now doctors even suspect malaria (she was in Panama back in Feb.) Ecoli is a very very very common UTI culprit. (Think about it, your digestive tract is FULL of it, doesn't take much for a little bit to get in the wrong hole) Her UTI probably went untreated for too long and the bacteria went to her kidneys thus making her very ill. That has happened to me before - no fun at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Who needs giardia when we have Olestra and Meridia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 'As far as I can tell you're both full of shit and I haven't learned a thing from either of you.' That shut me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 DPS, you have to remember that some people's eyes will glaze over if they see more than a small paragraph of text, without graphics. Dwayner knows this and exploits this knowledge to the fullest extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjd Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Journal of Applied and Environmental Microbiology danielpatricksmith-in which issue was your research published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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