Tied Together

[johnny]

I just wanted to send out a big THANK YOU! to whoever suggested tying in below a young'un to help/reassure them while they climb for the first few times.

A while back I asked for advice on introducing kids to rock and someone dropped that little tidbit (was it you Will??) I spent the day at Pilot Mountain near Winston-Salem on Sunday with the family and got Sean (just turned 9 and a bit afraid of heights) up a couple rather long 5.6ish routes. It was GREAT!

It was a bit tough trying to maintain a solid stance below Sean, waiting for him to peel off and knock me off as well. I found that it is very easy to have too much or too little line between you and the other climber. About 6 feet seemed good, enough for me to be close for support yet allow me enough slack to move and wait for Sean to move.

It really helped Sean to have me right there with him. Advice on foot/hand placements as well as the ocassional "It's OK, you're doing awsome, relax and breath" thing. Super cool getting a wide-eyed breathless hug at the anchor too!!!

Anyway, He had a great time, and so did I. Just wanted you all to know!!!

[Cpt.Caveman]

This summer I saw this kid at E38 on the Alpine 4th Class Simulator noted as route A:

The kid whined cried and complained for quite some time while dad tried to reassure him he was going to be ok. I guess the dad was training him. I thought it was cruel to expose the public to that noise and scene there. Don't be like this dad was please!

[johnny]

Caveman, reread my post OK? Sean had a wonderful time.I am sharp enough to not force Sean into anything he does not want to do. I climb. A lot. Sean wants to try it out, perhaps for no other reason than to hang out together. There is no "training". There is no whining (that means someone is not having a good time). There is just a good, mellow time at the crag with the opportunity to challenge each other and get closer. Anything else is no good, there are plenty of other cool things to do during a day in the woods.

P.S. I had his sister Heather (4 years old) hanging in a small harness. She climbed about 5 feet up and proceeded to make me swing her out from the rock and back again for just about ever. She would not let me stop! (and she squealed quite loudly the whole time)

[Cpt.Caveman]

I read your post and got the impression you were doing something cool. I just wanted to put a note in there. Don't be so defensive homey!

[johnny]

Hey Caveman, As soon as I sent that reply something struck me. In the scenerio you dexcribed at E38, which part was cruel again? Was it the part where someone else had to listen to a child freaked out and doing something they did not want to do or the part where a child was freaked out and doing something they did not want to do.

Priorities, man, priorities.

[David_Parker]

Johnny, I'm not sure if it was me that mentioned that, but that is how I climb with my son too. Won't be long before he says he doesn't need you there. I did a 2 pitch climb at Smith Rock with him and then rapped with him hanging between my legs on about 3 feet of runner girth hithched to my harness. He was scared at the very start (like he should be!) but once we got going, he was ok. Great job and keep up the fun! Dave

[Cpt.Caveman]

Struck you? I dont get it bro. I was not slamming you. If I was you would definitely know it

I think the kid liked to climb but hated to descend or be lowered. I was to the point that I was going to climb over to him and bring him down myself since he was having such a bad time and daddy was not prepared to deal with it. Someone else climbed over to him before I did. I think it is rude to expose that to the public.

So an overview is I was agreeing even more to your approach and you get "Struck" or something

[johnny]

STRUCK: when something occurs to someone, an idea or thought.

not STRUCK: past tense of strike, to hit or attack in some way.

Sorry, got the impression you were more concerned about having to hear it than what was going on. Got a lot of half-baked parenting ideas running about in my head these days.........

P.S. Stay away from Exit 38, it causes cancer. At least get over on the Far Side!!!

Now I remember, It was you David. Thank you again, it works awsome! Have you ever been knocked off by your child? I kept trying to find solid rests that seemed bomber enough to keep me attached if Sean dropped on my head. Actually made a 5.6 crag route quite challenging

[Bronco]

That kid crying at exit 38 was me Sucka!

just kiddin' but I did hike up that route this summer.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Killer Johnny!

Have fun out there and don't struck me

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bronco:

That kid crying at exit 38 was me Sucka!

just kiddin' but I did hike up that route this summer.

---

Good route to do laps on in the tennies Sucka!

[haireball]

Johnny & David

Sounds like you guys are having a great time with your kids. My boys learned to climb about the same time they were learning to walk - since Mom and I are both "retired" guides...I don't actually tie in my kids on the climbing rope though - I attach them to the belay rope with a long prussik (cordelette, actually) which allows me to vary the distance between us, and even permits climbing side-by-side with no slack to either of us. This technique eliminates the possibility of the kid peeling and knocking you off, Johnny, cuz you can stay on a tight belay yourself.After a few seasons of this, we graduated to "short-roping", and my youngest, aged 8, is now getting into following full-length pitches.What say a bunch of us who climb with our kids get together sometime for a kids day at a crag? Would you believe my guys (even the 8-year old) are pushing to climb waterfalls this winter? I have verified that I can adjust an old pair of footfangs to fit on their downhill ski-boots, so we're gonna go for it!

on another topic: David, if I remember correctly, you were looking for inexpensive shoe solutions for your young partner a while back. I mentioned 5.10 c4 resole kits - I buy them at Leavenworth Mountain Sports. The kit (about $20) includes enough c4 rubber to half-sole two pairs of shoes, a tube of barge cement, and instructions. You can get c4 rand material as a special order. I get extra mileage out of the rubber by saving the soles that I peel off of my own shoes when I resole them, and trimming those down to glue onto my kids old tennies. Since its usually just the edge of the sole thats gone, the old sole provides plenty of full-thickness rubber for the kids much smaller shoe. Works out to about $5/pair to keep the family in rock-shoes...

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: haireball ]

[David_Parker]

Yeah Hairhippy, I was hoping you showed at the rope fest with your banjo. I wanted to meet you because you mentioned this before and I wanted to take you up on it. Next summer for sure. We'll come to L-worth and get our kids together. Anyone else welcome too.

Cavey, a kid has just as much right to scream at the crag as an older climber does swearing in front of my kid! Get out of the dark ages, man. I know you and I were brought up where "kids were to be seen, not heard" but those days are long gone. What was cruel was the kid having his father creating that situation. Who gives a shit what the public thinks. Good for you for lending a hand.

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Parker:

Cavey, a kid has just as much right to scream at the crag as an older climber does swearing in front of my kid! Get out of the dark ages, man. I know you and I were brought up where "kids were to be seen, not heard" but those days are long gone. What was cruel was the kid having his father creating that situation. Who gives a shit what the public thinks. Good for you for lending a hand.

---

You guys just did not get it. I never said the kid did anything wrong. Nor did I say anything about crusing at the crag. I agree with the cruel part created by his father. Perhaps you misunderstood me.... Out of the Dark Ages and into my cave

[willstrickland]

Hey Jonny, congrats on a fine day with the young-un. Sounds like parenting can be alot of fun after the crying, shitting, and terrible twos are over.

I took one of my housemates to the gym for his first climbing expereince last night. It's pretty nice to be able to take a beginner and not have to teach belaying, knots, etc. Usually it feels like work when teaching newbies, but not this time. I was looking to maximize his climb time,so I told him I could teach him belaying at home any old time and being an eagle scout he had the fig-8 down in about 2 seconds. A two minute lesson on commands, doubling back buckles, etc and he's romping up a climb. After a quick run up the vertical wall he started eyeing the crack. I told him to look around and find something he wanted to climb...bingo, the crack it was. YESS!! A trad climber in the making (although he did flail trying to jam). Now if I can convince him that standing around in the cold for hours and pissing in a bottle is fun I might make a alpine climber of him too.

[haireball]

David -

I did show for the fest, both evenings, but without the banjo...I managed to miss all the climbing, though - by the time I got my lazy butt out to the campground in the late a.m., everyone was already gone doin' their thing! Doesn't anybody get hung over anymore?!?!Keep in touch! Vantage during a warm spell is a great winter trip. The sporties are usually thinned out a bit December thru March, making kid-management less of an issue.

[sexual_chocolate]

Captain Caveman: Do you have any pictures of Fossil Rock that you could post? I'd like to see the area; and maybe others would too.

Anyone have any?

[Cpt.Caveman]

Nope I dont. It's like Smith Rox yet more crumbly.......

[David_Parker]

Haireball, I missed Fri. pm of Ropefest for 2 reasons. First I was scared shitless that Caveman was going to beat me up. Second, I went into L-worth to check out the local talent. I almost got kidknapped by an overweight, but sweet lady. Eventually made it out there sometime after midnight. Sorry I missed you Sat night. Must have smoked too much! We'll hook up!

[carolyn]

I let a 7yr old try out the ice tower last weekend. He was pretty funny lookin after getting him all geared up. Cute, though I think the tools might have weighed more than him. Had a ten year old cruise up it as well...had quite a few ice climbers in awe of the technique he picked up just by watching. Although, I dont think dad was too happy to find out how much he would now be spending for his son's new hobby.

Its awesome to see kids climbing!

[johnny]

Not so much Carolyn, the key word with kids seems to be: USED!!!!!! or make it yourself. I kind of liked Hairball's (I think it was you) idea of using ski boots and fitting old crampons on them. tools can be a problem though.... one must be creative!!

Sounds like you are having fun on the ice tower thing, I am a little envious....

[Cpt.Caveman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Parker:

Haireball, I missed Fri. pm of Ropefest for 2 reasons. First I was scared shitless that Caveman was going to beat me up.

---

No way dude. Gimme some slack. I just want beer drinkin partners anyway. Pass the fire

[haireball]

"used" is definitely a key word for climbing gear for kids - another one is "rent" (or "borrow" if you've got tolerant partners...). one issue that is harder to get around, tho, is the problem that ice-tools are sized to fit adults. Now, my kids can split kindling using a hatchet-sized splitting maul with two hands - but they won't have the luxury of using both hands to place a single ice-tool, so I'm waiting to see how this plays out... and open to any ideas...

[David_Parker]

Kill 2 birds with one stone....buy a couple of the Grivel ultra light ice axes. Your kid can use them for ice climbing and you'll have a second tool for alpine climbing!

I'm not so sure if I will "push" my kid to ice climb. He certainly knows I do it, but I think I'll wait until he expresses interest. Steep snow on mountains will be just fine for awhile!

[carolyn]

cover adzes w/half a tennis ball and make sure they are wearing protective glasses.I think if you brought a young'in to the ice, maybe bring them to an area which has been climbed a lot, where there are already placements made and they dont have to swing hard OR pull hard to get the tool out.

Hows about dry toolin'?

Kids will amaze you if you give them the chance...just make sure THEY are the one's who want to try it. I also emphasize, when working with kids that the goal is not necessarily the top. The goal is to go as far as they can while staying safe and having fun.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]