Rock Climbing with a Team of Three

[catbirdseat]

The reverso has a self-locking mode that allows the rope to come in but not go out. One can let go of one rope while pulling in the other without endangering anyone.

[Norman_Clyde]

Just the excuse I need to purchase another piece of gear. Inexpensive to boot!

[mattp]

If you use the reverso to belay off an anchor, you just yard each rope through the device at whatever rate you want. If you let go, it locks.

 

I've used the "keep a finger in-between and let the one you aren't pulling in slide" method with the ATC before, and I've thought it was fairly safe, but the Reverso is definitely better in this respect. However, when you have a climber haning on the rope, it is harder to feed slack with the reverso.

[Dru]

...and when you have a climber hanging on the rope with an ATC or Pyramid, and you are trying to feed rope to/from the other climber?....

[Nick]

Norman,

Belaying two followers with the reverso BOTH ropes are run through in autoblock mode; the reverso is simply safer because when you fumble or let go of the ropes because you are trying to feed them through at varying rates, the reverso will still catch a fall. You must use the reverso in standard (non autoblock) mode to belay the leader so that you can both take rope in and let rope out with ease. When the rope is loaded the reverso locks and does not want to let rope out; this can be bad news if the belayed climber needs to be lowered, or simply needs slack. It is hard to feed slack quickly to the leader with a reverso in autoblock mode, so you never belay a leader in autoblock mode. If a follower falls and then needs to be lowered from a reverso in autoblock mode you can do it by rigging a small tackle (with a cordelette and carabiners for instance) to lift the reverso up so that it's connection to the anchor is slackened, thus releasing the rope from the camming action of the reverso in autoblock mode and allowing slack to run out. Practice this at home before you use a reverso.

How about using two very light single ropes and a reverso when climbing as a team of three? The leader leads on one rope while being belayed by the second follower. The first follower then sprints up to the leaders belay and prepares to belay the leader up the next pitch while the second follower jugs and cleans the route. The followers would take turns jugging/cleaning, each on their own single rope, while the leader would lead in blocks. In theory the leader would only have to pause briefly to belay a speedy and unencumbered follower, though a wandering route might require that both followers be protected at times. Has anyone ever tried this? I haven't.

[mattp]

...and when you have a climber hanging on the rope with an ATC or Pyramid, and you are trying to feed rope to/from the other climber?....

 

It doesn't take yet a fourth hand to "unlock" the ATC and hang on to your hanging climber while feeding/reeling in the other one, as it does with the Reverso. This is not a distinction specific to climbing with a team of three, but I am sure you are aware that the ATC doesn't lock up the same way that the Reverso does - that is a fundamental premise of this discussion.

 

Like I said, I prefer the Reverso in this situation but (generally on lower angle terrain) I've have used the ATC and I've felt that I was providing a secure belay – though safety police on this site have admonished me that I must have been delusional.

[catbirdseat]

How about using two very light single ropes and a reverso when climbing as a team of three? The leader leads on one rope while being belayed by the second follower. The first follower then sprints up to the leaders belay and prepares to belay the leader up the next pitch while the second follower jugs and cleans the route. The followers would take turns jugging/cleaning, each on their own single rope, while the leader would lead in blocks. In theory the leader would only have to pause briefly to belay a speedy and unencumbered follower, though a wandering route might require that both followers be protected at times. Has anyone ever tried this? I haven't.

The leader would be leading the next pitch without the gear he used on the first pitch. If he has a large enough rack then no problem. The first follower up on the second pitch brings the gear from the first pitch. The composition of the rack that the leader has available will vary from pitch to pitch.

[dylan_taylor]

Be sure to 9 mm ropes or smaller when belaying two with a reverso. With larger diameter ropes it will be unwieldy.

 

9mm and smaller ropes are dangerous to use with a reverso. They can slip under suprisingly low loads. Use a reversino, or get bigger ropes.

 

 

How about using two very light single ropes and a reverso when climbing as a team of three? The leader leads on one rope while being belayed by the second follower. The first follower then sprints up to the leaders belay and prepares to belay the leader up the next pitch while the second follower jugs and cleans the route. The followers would take turns jugging/cleaning, each on their own single rope, while the leader would lead in blocks. In theory the leader would only have to pause briefly to belay a speedy and unencumbered follower, though a wandering route might require that both followers be protected at times. Has anyone ever tried this? I haven't.

 

If one person is jugging, why use a reverso? Just fix the line. However, I would be scared shitless jugging 60m of skinny line, wondering about what kind of edges are sawing the sheath above...

 

If one person is "sprinting" up the pitch, belay them ATC style, rather than a reverso. It is faster.

 

This assumption may be way off base, but I figure most people climbing in a team of three and reading this post are not going to find themselves on terrain suitable for jugging anyway, unless they are on a big wall. For long cragging routes and alpine routes of moderate grade, freeclimbing is often faster.

 

My $0.02 about whether to use one or two ropes for a team of three: They both work fine, but it depends on 1) the type of route, 2) descent (walk off vs rap) 3) The skill and experience level of the team, etc... Two followers tied 10-15 ft apart on the same rope should be fine on routes clear of loose rock and sharp edges. The route ought to fall within their ability as well. e.g: diedre. The force of two followers falling neccesitates a grigri, reverso, or other plaquette-style belay to handle the higher load.

 

A climber leading on two ropes, with partners tied to the other end of each one, can belay efficiently with a reverso or some type of plaquette. In this situation, the leader will probably have to keep leading pitches, rather than swapping leads, because belaying two ropes/partners simutaneously can easily create clusterf%$cks at belays if you try to swap leaders.