TednCda

Very late response to your question, but did see three caribou on a trip into Harrison Peak, probably 1993 or so. They were on the ridge between Harrison Peak and Harrison Lake. I believe they are now non-existent in Idaho and North-east Washington. Don't have my old journals handy to give you further info.

Congrats and good job. Proves again that an onsight look beats all the info you can get off the web. Good work by all of you.

Havent been up there yet but talking to the Priest Lake people here in CdA. there is still a lot of snow and the roads were hit pretty hard by the fast melt. July might be a better bet.

Stopped at Auntie's on Sunday but they were out. The lady behind the counter said they had 11 more copies on order - they might be in by now. I went ahead and ordered on line. An excelent addition to anyone's library and I would also say the best treatment of Post Falls to date.

Lost A pair of 5.10 Pitons at Banks Lake with a single BD neutrino holding them together. Please send me a private em if you found them. Thanks

As a resource, it would be nice to see a section devoted to new route topos. Give the people who develope a new route a place to give "objective info" rather than chest beating and let others experience the new climb that doesn't appear in any guidebook . . . yet.

Keep us informed and be sure to let Craig and Lila know so that we can get some MS students out.

The register at chimney was in a hinged metal box and placed in a cranny on the flat summit. Not only did it record the history of those who had climbed the various routes, it also was historically the place where new routes were first recorded. Chimney has been the first alpine climb of many people in the inland Northwest and the register recorded their thoughts on their first multipitch climb. As such the register often brought back memories to all of us as well as providing a historical record of who, how and when aspiring climbers and accomplished alpinists reached its summit. The records were kept by the Spokane Mountaineers with the blessings of the Chimney's owner. Leearden's actions, if they are as he admits, are in derogation of a long alpine tradition. I smell the bait he now trolls before us all, or, at least, I hope it is a troll. If he is not trolling, May he be cast upon the dung heap of time where he threw the aforesaid summit register and there be no more remembrance of him than of last months turd plucked from the butt of the world.

RuMR My point was not that the routes were made easier, though what else can one assume when holds are bolted on and hold's are chipped into the rock. By definition, it is easier because there are more holds. My concern is that a line that was not climbable at current standards was made climbable by chipping holds. Quote: From Marty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am guilty of putting holds on my route in that area. Anyone is welcome to fill in the holes provided that they can climb the route without them. You would impress me to no end, but otherwise forget about destroying my route and the others. They are good rockclimbs and add great challenges to the Dishman Crag. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Marty's own admission he changed a route that he and others could not climb into an 11 or 12. Who can say what the limit will be 10 years from now. And now we will never know if it could have been climbed by somebody next year. The fact that they are now good climbs doesn't negate the fact that they are not the climb they would have become when standards advance beyond what they are now. And they will advance. As to going against my logic, the question is whether we are climbing for the mental challenge of overcoming our fears or for the physical challenge of making moves. Most of us are probably doing both. My point is that when the mental challenge is taken out of climbing by making the climb easier and/or more protected, then we are only doing a gym exercise in another location. The second point is that once altered, the rock will not grow back. We should respect what is there and leave what we cannot do for those who come after , we should meet the standards the rock imposes on the climber, not vice versa. As for going agianst my logic, all of us are complex people who do and say many interesting and often contradictory things. Keeps life interesting for all and adds a little bit of unpredictability. I, for one, like that.

I have followed this thread with much interest. Though I seldom feel the need to add to he discussion, a little historical perspective might be appropriate. Since the days of Whymper, younger climbers have striven to show the old generation how much better the new generation is. They have looked at the "last great problems" any number of times and conquered it. The next generation then comes along and finds a harder version of the "last great problem". This has been an improtant part of the appeal of climbing, whether mountaineering in the extreme reaches of the Himalaya or simply exploring our capabilities on local crags. There has always been some problem that the older generation labled as impossible. Then some young climber comes along and shows everyone it can be done. Much of the challenge of climbing is mental and within ourselves. Dane earlier said that in order to climb a trad ropute, we must first master the fear within ourselves. I suspect that all of the contributors to this thread climb much better than this fat old man ever will, but even at their level they must deal with the fear within themselves first, then with the technical difficulty of the climb. Beating the climb down to an acceptable level of fear, either by altering the rock or by placing bolts every 3 feet removes that ultimate challenge for every other climber who comes after the person altering the route. Beating a climb down with traditional pro every 3 feet if it is available does not alter the fear level for the next climber, it does not reduce the challenge for the next generation. One must ask, how many of us would desire to climb the nose of El Cap if there were bolts every 3 feet all the way to the top. Frankly, I suspect no-one would find any challenge much greater than that of seeing how many pull-ups they can do at the gym. The tragedy of DH and other areas where the rock is altered to make holds where there were none or to make the climbing less of a mental game in dealing with fear, is that the challenge for the next generation is no longer there. The rock has been brought down to the level of the present generation whose arrogance says to the world "I am the best, I am the best right now that climbs this rock and I am the best that will ever climb this rock." They are right because their actions have altered the rocke so there is nothing left to challenge the next generation of climbers. Imaagine if the top climbers of the the day 30 or 50 or 100 years ago would have had the ability to chip holds and alter the rock so that there was nothing harder thatn what they could climb. Who would have any interest in climbing today? Our sport demands that we preserve the challenge for the next generation. Marty has stated that 40 years from now, no one will remember who made the first assent. Maybe not, but the better question is 40 years from now, will Marty and the others who brought the rock down to their level be remembered as the people who killed climbing by taking the challenge away and making it no more than a meaningless exercise.

Does anyone have recent info on the Tahoma glaicer route - west side conditions. I will be taking a group up in a week and a half and am wondering if anybody here has been on the West side of Rainier this spring. There is nothing posted on the current climbing conditins at MORA site or under Mount Rainier at CC.com. Thanks for any input Ted in Cda

The East side approach isn't as good as it used to be. Over the last few years the Pack River Road has not been maintained as well as it used to be and is almost as bad as the Hunt creek road. Also, the approach is now about a mile and a half longer because the road is blocked at the Pack River Bridge. In recent years I've found it's quicker to go in from the west side. Ted

Which of the North face routes did you do, Gerber-Sink or Stanley-Wickwire? Beckey makes the Stanley-Wickwire sound like the North Face variation Nelson speaks about in first edition of selected climbs. Gerber Sink sounds like a really good route.

Good job Heinie and thanks for the tracks. We were right behind you and should have belayed at the top of the gully like you did. Tried to get a pin into that blob of rock right above your first belay and ended up simulclimbing to the to the rock on the right about 50 feet above the gully Overall a great climb for both of us for our first winter climb other than an ice fall. Ted

I hate to rain in the joy and jubilation, but i am afraid that jja is right on this. If the house passes a bill that differs from the senate bill which was reported out of committee without the fee demo program, then the two conflicting bills will be resolved in a conference committee. The conference committee could and i emphasize could, but the fee demo for national forests and BLM lands back into effect. Hopefully the House will have he courage to follow the senate lead on this one but I am not at all confident of that given the tendency of the house. I haven't done much research on line but if you visit http://www.americanwhitewater.org/archive/article/1098/ there is discussion of the need to make sure similar language appears in the house bill. The Senate bill is just one step on a long trail to get rid of the fee demo program Ted